Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:37:20 EST From: Mcsiff@aol.com Subject: ABS IN OR OUT? Bruce Klette: > Wes Jones commented: > ***Wes is quite correct - we had a long series of discussions on this ab pulling in doctrine some months ago. Do check through the archives of this group for all of that information. My contribution in those discussions was largely on the scientific side of this never-ending tale. This time I wish to throw just one basic practical issue into the discussion. Bruce, ask your friend if he or any of Paul Chek's group if any of them have successfully squatted over 880lb (400kg) or cleaned over 480lb (220kg) with their magical ab pulling in technique? Having spent much of my adult life in contact with serious weightlifters and powerlifters and having studied some of them scientifically, I have never come across a single elite lifter of any sort who stabilises his trunk in that manner. Maybe I just haven't met the right lifters yet! I have just returned from a most delightful and interesting time in Ohio where Louie Simmons and I shared part of a Strength Clinic at Ohio University and compared notes and ideas for several days. I was also honoured to be able to attend a few training sessions at Louie's Westside BB gym, where I saw a good few ultra strong gentlemen explosively box squatting heavy load with chains and bands attached to the bars (to add even more stress). They definitely were not sucking in their abs or trying to play cute little tricks with their abdominal transversus muscles - without exception, I am sure that I might have seen that all of them allowed their abs to push outwards or mayeb I imagined that! Jokes aside, had they consciously tried to intervene in their extremely heavy box squatting actions by pulling their abs, they would have done more to harm themselves than add any safety. Bear in mind that all of these lifters regard 700lbs as a sort of casual, moderate weight for a squat, so they are by no means some average citizens who are pulling in abs to type in front of a computer or lift the typical puny little Body Pump or personal training loads. These are power giants who are ever under the watchful and very critical eye of Louie, who would be the first to implement any such ab technique that could enhance the power, strength and safety of his lads. Even with their huge loads with added elasticised resistance (often a total of more than 900lbs of force at the top of the squat), they take only 45 seconds between successive sets of 2 reps. According to Chek, all of these incredibly strong powerlifters, as well as all the top Russian, Bulgarian and other international weightlifters whom I have met, are using trunk stabilisation methods that create an improper recruitment pattern! One day, I must get around to telling them that! Or maybe Chek would personally care to tell their coaches that they are all wrong? Does anyone seriously think that the coaches of so many elite lifters would ignore the same literature that Chek reads if it would help their lifters become stronger and lift more safely? I have also read many of those same books and articles that Chek and various physical therapists have read to support their beliefs, but not one of them has ever studied the actions of elite weightlifters or powerlifters. That surely tells us something. Sorry, but I have seen the practical training and competitive evidence over and over during the past 35 years and I have yet to see any scientific evidence that shows that all of the lifters whom many of us have seen or read about are all wrong and that they should be pulling in abs instead of letting the lifting process automatically activating the relevant muscles in the right manner. Note here that outward distention of the abs is invariably what happens, NOT inward pulling! One demonstrates and teaches the correct pattern of lifting and muscle recruitment follows quite naturally in most instances. As the physiology texts stress, "The body knows of movements, not muscles", so why try to isolate muscles in a complex activity like squatting, when an entire complex symphony of muscular actions occur if one just teaches the correct MOVEMENT? Mel Siff Dr Mel C Siff Denver, USA mcsiff@aol.com