From: "Rodney Smith" Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 Subject: Re: Proper Spotting In WEIGHTS #1125, the inimitable Dan Herold wrote: >With all this talk of "lousy spotters" etc., could someone post the >With all this talk of "lousy spotters" etc., could someone post the >"proper" methods to successfully spot someone's lift? Well, I suppose I've done a fair amount of spotting over the last 18-19 years; and have even, at times, been told I do a pretty respectable job....but enough about me... When someone asks me to spot them, the first question I ask is: "Do you want a lift-off?" If they answer "yes", let them direct the action (usually, they'll do a 1-2-3, or they'll say "OK", or sometimes, just a quick nod... If they say "no", then just stay close and let them do their thing. Positioning is crucial, too. A spotter's job is to be ready to take enough of the load to keep the lifter from being hurt in the event of a problem, so the spotter should be standing in a position that can suddenly assume a significant amount of weight without losing their balance. If the lifter is lying on a spotter should be standing in a position that can suddenly assume a significant amount of weight without losing their balance. If the lifter is lying on a bench, you'll want to get close to, but not directly over their head (dripping sweat tends to break a lifter's concentration) If they are on lying on an incline bench, you'll want to stand as close behind them as possible; the same goes for someone sitting up straight (for seated militaries, etc). Lifters doing squats can make for some interesting spotting positions (if you're not already a really good friend of the squatter, you will be.. ;)..) Get an idea of how many reps they are going to try, and how they want their spot. Some folks prefer to have you spot them from their elbows (this is good for dumbbell work), some folks prefer you just lift the bar. Some folks don't want any help until they're obviously dying and the movement has begun to reverse direction. Personally, I don't like to stop my motion and like my spotter to keep me moving... The point is, find out beforehand. Anyway, once the lifting has begun, concentrate on the lifter. Watch their face; watch their motion....try to pick up signals from their actions that will tell you whether they're going to need help on the next lift. If you can see face; watch their motion....try to pick up signals from their actions that will tell you whether they're going to need help on the next lift. If you can see that they're starting to fade, give the lifter a bit of verbal help, and get yourself ready. But bear in mind that some people don't want you to touch the bar until they're dying. Then, when the time comes, GENTLY take a bit of the load off the lifter. Most spots involve changing the load by only a couple of pounds...You might want to let them go for an assisted rep or two... The point here is to avoid doing too much of the work for the lifter. When the set is done, take control of the bar. Guide it back to the standards. As a spotter, SAFETY is _your_ responsibilty. If the lifter is working with dumbbells, ask them if they've got control of them, and then let them set 'em down (watch those toes!) When they tell you "thanks", tell 'em "..anytime". Nota Bene: A big part of a good lift is a solid "psyche"....as a spotter, you should avoid doing anything that's going to interrupt the lifter's concentration. Hope this helps....I we can create an army of excellent spotters, (everyone teach one) then that's one less thing we have to deal with in the gym... Peace, Luck, and Power Rodney W. Smith Customer Service Center rwsmith@bbnplanet.com A Bodhittsatva in the Home of the Network Gods ------------------------------ Date: Thu Nov 2 10:40:19 From: yj2340@sunams (Cimorelli Jean) Subject: Re: Proper Spotting Spotting- ask 5 people and you'll no doubt get 5 different answers. Where to spot? One rule of thumb is to NOT take control of the weight out of the person's hands. On a flat bench press, you would support your partner's elbows/fore- arms on a dumbbell press, but stand over head and pull the bar up on a barbell press. Despite the difference in spot, in both circumstances the lifter retains control of the weight and is only getting support from the spotter. On the db press, I say be slightly up on the forearms, because not only do you assist the lifter in lifting the weight, but you must make sure the weights don't take a tired lifters arms in DANGEROUS directions! When to jump in, and how much of a spot? This is mostly personal preference and lifting style. I prefer to hit my sticking point for a second, and then get slight assistance to complete an assisted- but slow and difficult rep. My partner, on the other hand, does NOT like her rep to come to a stop, and prefers a spot that makes her rep remain non-stop and fluid. She wil generally do a rep or two more than me under those circumstances. Reasons? She says stopping causes her to lose focus/drive, and feels like she craps out without having fully worked the muscle; and for me- if I don't "stick" for a brief moment, I feel like I'm getting too much assistance and ALSO not working the muscle fully. On machines, like the lat pulldown, some prefer you spot the stack, some prefer the spot on the bar. On squats, some prefer two spotters on either end of the bar, some prefer a spot at the hips, and some prefer a spotter stand behind them, reach under their arms and stabilize the bar throughout the motion. The last one's my a spot at the hips, and some prefer a spotter stand behind them, reach under their arms and stabilize the bar throughout the motion. The last one's my preference- if I'm losing the squat and can't re-rack, my partner can push me forward, and the weight will fall on the safety bars in the rack. Which, if you're in a rack and self-spotting, make sure you're toward the back of the rack and sing safety bars. If you DO lose it, there's less likelihood you'll go backwards, do ugly things to your neck or get pinned (crushed??). Jeanne PS- You could probably write a whole section on the pros, cons, dos and don'ts on spotting alone! - Jeanne Cimorelli yj2340@sunams.usma.edu ------------------------------ From: "Berg, Cory" Subject: Re: Proper Spotting Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 Dan Herold wrote: > >ie: things like how long should one wait before intervening, how much >help should the spotter be providing etc. -------------------- Well, I think you will see a lot of different answers to this one. For me, a *bad* spotter is someone who 1) yells and screams at me during the set. I like a quiet but intense word or two, nothing more. 2) yanks the weight completely off when I need the spot. 3) uses the "one-finger-method" i.e. no help at all during the spot. 4) during squats, touches the belt and calls it a spot. ugh. 3) uses the "one-finger-method" i.e. no help at all during the spot. 4) during squats, touches the belt and calls it a spot. ugh. 5) somebody who hasn't had a shower in 5 years. And I thought I was bad. It's up to you to find somebody you can trust to spot you. Somebody with a good positive attitude, and someone who won't be staring at the local gym women instead of paying attention to what you are doing. There's nothing more frustrating that getting clocked in the face during pullovers because your spot was looking elsewhere. From being in the gym a lot, I know who is serious and knows how to spot. I don't ask Joe Guestpass for a spot, unless there's no one else available. I think you should tell the person how you like to be spotted. For example, if during a squat you want the person with you during the movement, with their arms under yours, hands close to the front of the chest, then tell them that's how you want to be spotted. Show them if you have to. If you want them to scream at you, tell them. Since I work out with a partner, I know I can trust him to spot properly, and he has learned to use his head when I need a spot. If I want to complete the set without a spot, I will shake my head or grunt "nope" towards the finish. If I need a spot, I will grunt some incomprehensible curse and he'll help out. It's impossible for the spotter to read your mind, but having a partner is the next best thing. As for how much weight to take off, it depends. I like the bar to keep moving. I don't like to be stuck in one place for 10 minutes. When I spot I will not just yank the weight up unless the person is really in trouble. I pull up enough so that the bar keeps moving, but the person is working to do it. Again it's something that should be communicated. Anyway, that's how I look at it. Happy training. -Cory ------------------------------ From: "Jaan Leemet" Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 Subject: Re: Proper Spotting & Re: When to take protein When someone asks me to spot them, I ask them: You want a liftoff? Should I stay with you? You want to do forced reps? When do you want me to start helping you? you want me to yell at you on your last rep? How many do you expect do do? Please sign this waiver! It easier for most people to explain before they start their lift than near the end of their set. I had a guy start yelling at me once on a heavy squat while I felt my back start to bend out of shape. He is going "COME ON!, COME ON!" and I'm waiting for a big CRACK sound! Wow, I still get a funny feeling whenever I think about that. After that, I tell people exactly what I would like them to do and when. For squats, I have a small circle of friends that I trust. I'd rather do them on a smith machine if I can't find a spotter that day. From: ratner@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Dave "Van Damme" Ratner) Subject: Re: Spot from Hell Date: 10 Nov 93 01:58:13 GMT sakalauk@pluto.coam.usm.edu (Peter Sakalaukus) writes: >>I would have taken his head and introduced him to a 45lb plate. I hate >>spotters that either stand there like morons and babble "come on...you can do it >>" or as soon as they see you are making the slightest bit of effort they grab >>the barbell (if benching) and literally yank it and you off the damn bench. >>It's hard to come by a good spotter. I tend to pride myself on it I guess. >>I've been complimented many times that my spotting technique is nice and smooth >>without helping too much or yanking the weight off the person. I just wish >>there was a clone of me to help spot me. >>-Rob >... your humility is overwhelming. Has it ever occured to you that good spotters >are made not born? Only an IDIOT has someone spot them without asking if THEY >KNOW HOW! Not only know how, but also how much. Some people like really "tight" spots, where they keep your motion going and start helping you the instant you can't keep the constant momentum. Others like a "loose" spot, where they let you work and struggle, and only help when the bar really is not moving. When I ask for a spot, I usually try and say something to qualify what kind of spot I want --- the worst is benching and having them help me too early, making me yell "I go" in the middle of my set. From: chass@unixg.ubc.ca (Calvin Hass) Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights Subject: Re: Spotting squats Date: 4 Nov 1995 19:25:26 GMT L.B. Pollock (greymat9@starnetinc.com) wrote: : Perhaps a dumb question, but could someone post or send me : instructions on the proper way to spot someone doing squats. : I've been lifting for about five months now, and I have yet : to see someone do squats with a spotter. Stand directly behind the person, and have your arms ready to wrap around their chest, below their armpits. At the bottom, if they fail, lift their upper-body. The wrong way is to lift around the waist or on the bar itself (not as bad). Helping on the waist doesn't protect their back if they begin to fail. -- Calvin Hass chass@unixg.ubc.ca Windsurfing (E-Rock), Mountain Biking, University of British Columbia Stock Trials & hardcore H.I.T. Recruit <==> I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandfather; <==> <==> not screaming in terror, like his passengers. <==> From:  Dbustrin@sait386.morgan.com (Craig Bustrin) Subject: Re: spotting Date: 18 Apr 1996 15:46:19 GMT Eric Simpson wrote: As Mr. Deadlift (I think) said in another post, if you decide to pause at the bottom of your bench, people assume you can't do the rep. They'll start lifting some of the weight long before you reach failure. Same goes for a slow, controlled negative. I've had guys yelling at me "C'mon! You got at least three more!!!" on my second rep of pause-presses! As I can't very well explain to them in the middle of the set what I'm doing, I end up glaring at them and driving my anger into the iron -- towards their head. >:-> Craig+ responds: One of the things I've discovered about spotters is that, by and large, they don't have ESP. When I recruit someone other than my workout partner (who *does* have ESP) to spot me, I take a moment and outline what I'm planning to do and the 'style' of spot I want. This is especially important if you are doing negatives or something like pause-presses -- which some people might consider rather esoteric. (Not me, though. Um... what are they?) :-) Immediately after the set, I give them some feedback. "Thanks! Good job... But can you be a bit more maschochistic on the next set? You were helping a tad too much at my sticking point. Make me work harder. Make me suffer." Your spotter will feel much better about spotting you again if they feel they've been able to do a good job and fulfill your expectations. OTOH, anger *can* be a way of stimulating intensity, can't it! ;-) Cheers, Craig+ From: jkphoebus@aol.com (JKPhoebus) Subject: Re: spotting Date: 18 Apr 1996 02:17:37 -0400 Just today, a friend of mine dropped 275 onto his chest after it rolled out of his (admittedly lousy) grip. He was about 3/4 of the way up on his rep when it happened and the bar actually _bounced_ off of his chest. The doctor says that he didn't fracture any bones or bruise his heart which is fortunate. He was being spotted at the time, but his spotter was just as surprised as he. (And was also able to deadlift the weight off of his chest). I think that a bunch of the guys who don't ask for spots were awakened to the fact of how dangerous benching to failure can be on your own without a spotter. While I'm not strong enough to spot for guys who are lifting around the 300 mark, I routinely offer and ask for spots when I'm not at the gym with my lifting partner. Recently someone posted to this newsgroup a "Primer on Spotting" which suggested the best way to spot someone else, especially if you are doing so for the first time. I wish I had that post and I encourage the author to repost it if he reads this, but I'd like to paraphrase a few of his suggestions: If you are spotting someone else for the first time, don't just stand behind them and let them start lifting without asking a few questions first. Generally, try to ascertain the following before they start. By finding out this info, you'll make the spotting better for you and them: (1) do they want you to assist in the liftoff? - if they do, ask them to count or nod to you when they want to begin so that your timing is the same. (2) how many reps do are they trying for? (3) at what point do they want you to help - one guy I spot for at the gym asks that I not jump in until the bar is starting back down, others will want increasing amounts of help as they start to struggle. (4) do they want you to assist additional reps once they begin to fail. I find that by determining the above can cut down on the frustration we all might have encoutered by either over-eager spotters who jump in once you begin to lift more slowly or those who stand back and shout for you to PUSH HARDER when you've already lifted to failure. john From: mikel@nyiq.net (Mike Lane) Subject: Re: what i HATE about spotters!!! Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 01:39:48 GMT hoffman@hp2.wpic.pitt.edu (Timothy Hoffman) wrote: >I have never seen a FAQ on spotting! Has anyone in this group seen one? >If so please post address, I would like to retrieve it, and post it in some >form on this newsgoup. A FAQ on this is a great idea. This newsgroup definately has the people to do it. Add how to spot someone on a squat to any and all FAQs. No one ever seems to know how to do this. I don't really know how to do it. I do know enough not to spot by grabbing the bar but thats about it. I think what makes a good spotter is basically anyone who maximizes your personal safety when lifting heavy weight AND maximizes the stress you get for that last critical rep. IMO a spot for a 1rm and a spot for a regular "work" set are two different animals. I tend to "hover" on spots. What I mean is I get very close to the weight being lifted. I do this as I see a spot as a very serious responsibility and I _expect_ the person to have a catastrophic failure. I can't stop 200 lbs from falling on someones chest if I'm more than 2 inches from the bar and braced to catch it. To me, if you spot with the intention of merely helping on that last rep you are missing a big part of what a spot is. I admit the case is rare but in some instances a spotter has the spotees life literally in their hands. MikeL From: garry@mda.ca (Garry Holmen) Subject: Re: what i HATE about spotters!!! Date: 22 Aug 1996 18:29:50 GMT Mike Lane (mikel@nyiq.net) wrote: : : Add how to spot someone on a squat to any and all FAQs. No one ever : seems to know how to do this. I don't really know how to do it. I do : know enough not to spot by grabbing the bar but thats about it. Spotting the squat is best done with the spotter taking a wider stance then the lifter and when the squatter starts hitting failure the spotter's arms should come inside the the squatters. This allows the spotter to place his hands on the squatter's chest making sure that the guy squatting isn't going to tip over and since your arms are underneath his you can actually haul him up somewhat if you need to. If you check out Barry Merriman's web page you can see him spotting Ron Fedkiw at 775 lbs. I wrote a brief article on spotting I'll see if I can find it and post it as a rough draft. Garry From: garry@mda.ca (Garry Holmen) Subject: Re: what i HATE about spotters!!! Date: 22 Aug 1996 18:53:58 GMT Mike Lane (mikel@nyiq.net) wrote: : A FAQ on this is a great idea. This newsgroup definately has the : people to do it. As I promised here is an article I posted previously... not 100% complete but it's a start. Spotting - The Lost Art ----------------------- One Man's Testiment ------------------- It was man against iron... I was pushing up those final few reps to hit total failure in the squat. Deep breath, descend, pause, push.... the commands echoed in my mind as I waged the primal battle. I would not let this weight crush me... slowly, I started to gain ground and the bar was beginning to move as I willed it. But anyone who has battled the gods of iron before know that the fight does not end until the bar is racked. I felt a upwards push on the left side of the barbell... I was losing my balance tilting to the right and crashing into the squat rack... my victory was now a sound defeat. What could have gone wrong? Looking to my left I found a guy who thought I was in trouble and had attempted to spot me by lifting up on the bar and though his intentions might have been good they were poorly executed and thus could have caused a great deal of injury to me or someone else. The Purposes of Spotting ------------------------ The main purposes for spotting someone are: - to prevent injury to the lifter being spotted - to provide extra confidence to the lifter - to allow a lifter to push themselves beyong their normal means. As one can see spotting someone isn't something to be taken lightly... in the worst case scenario a bad spotting job could result in injury or death. Take it seriously and concentrate on the event at hand. It is not the time nor the place to scope out the rest of the gym, to make eyes with that good looking blonde nor to make you look good. Your focus should be entirely on the lifter and the things that might go wrong in their exercise. Spotting - the Agreement ------------------------------ Although I'm far from a lawyer I tend to view the spotter and the lifter entering a contract when they lift. The spotter pledges to do all in their power to assist the lifter to the best of their ability. As such both the lifter and spotter have responsibilities that they need to address. If either party shirks their duties you have a chance for accidents to happen. The best way to prevent this is solid communication. Lifter's Responsibilities ------------------------- 1) Be as clear and concise as you can. Don't just ask for a spot from someone... tell them exactly how you want to be spotted, where their hands should be, how much help you want and what you're trying to accomplish. 2) Tell the spotter what your objectives are. Do you want them just to make sure you don't eat the bar? Do you want them to assist with the lift as it becomes more difficult? How many reps should you be able to do by yourself? Do you want a lift off in the movement or help setting up? 3) To give the spotter as much help as you can. Never just let the weight drop completely into the spotters control unless they're prepared for it. If you are doing forced reps don't make them do all the positive work on each rep for you... you should be doing the majority of the work and they should be assisting. 4) Give the spotter verbal clues... perhaps tell them you'll begin lifting on a count of 3 and then say the count. 5) Thank the spotter when they're done. They've just done you a big favour. Tell them how much you appreciated their help. Spotter's Responsibilities -------------------------- 1) Listen.... it seems so simple but this is where 80% of the spotting mistakes are made. Give the lifter you're going to spot 100% of your attention. 2) If you have any questions about what a lifter wants then ask! Stupid questions aren't bad... stupid assumptions are an accident waiting to happen. 3) If you don't think you're capable of providing what they want then tell them that you don't feel comfortable with spotting them. When your help is needed it isn't the time to realize that you're in over your head. 4) Look for other dangers that might effect a lifter. Is their a dumbell near the squat rack where the lifting is taken place? Is the bar cambered and apt to slip from the lifter's grasp. Make any lifting area a safe place and it'll make your's and the lifter's lives easier. 5) As the lift is set up let the lifter know that they're clear of the racks, etc. And when the lifts are complete let them know that the bar is racked or that you have the weight. Make sure they hear you. 6) Never, ever spot someone unless they ask you first. If they are in extreme danger then give them a hand otherwise leave them be. It is sometimes hard to discern whether someone really needs your help and someone who doesn't. If you don't know ask or leave them be. Some of the worst gym accidents I've seen are when someone helps someone who isn't expecting it. 7) Get in the proper position to spot regardless of how goofy it looks. I see to many people spotting squats in a lazy manner from the side or just watching their partner. Get in the right place so that if they need your help you're in postion to give it. Spotting and the Various Exercises ---------------------------------- Squats: One of the most dangerous lifts in the weight lifting arsenal; squats require a great deal of concentration and proper technique from the spotter. The main idea is that the spotter wants to prevent the lifter from tilting forward and to be in a position either to help assist the lifter lower the weight in a controlled manner or move it in a position for racking. The spotter stands directly behind the lifter, his/her feet should be wider then the the stance of the lifters. As the squatter decends the spotter should echo this movement and lower themselves in unision with the lifter. That way when the spotter needs to help they are in a position to push with the legs and assist without getting in the way. There are two arm positions for spotting the squat. The best way is for the spotter to extend his/her arms underneath the lifters arm pits; one arm to either side of the squatter's chest. When the lifter needs assistance the spotters palms are brought to bear on the lifter's chest and the spotter lifts up with the legs. This kind of looks like some sort of hugging motion as you assist the lifter back into the racking position. This prevents the lifter >from tipping forward, crashing to the ground ('cuz their arms/chest are above yours) and allows you to apply the force to the entire torso rather then just to the squatter's back. An alternate type of squat spot is for the spotter to place their hands on the lifter's waist and for the spotter to lift from this grip when the squatter stalls. The problem with this is that it doesn't provide as much protection as the arms on the chest method. I don't recommend it unless the lifter feels uncomfortable with your hands on their chest (ie. woman lifter and strange male spotter. 8^) ) As the squat weight increases also keep in mind that it might be feasible to get multiple squatters in this exercise. 3 spotters are a good number with the main spotter behind the lifter and the remaining two spotters at either end of the barbell/plates. Thus when the lifter fails all three spotters will be much more able to assist in reracking the weight. I also suggest squatting in a good power rack or squat cage for extra protection. Bench Press: This exercise is the number one cause of death in home gyms. The lifter lowers the weight and it get's stuck on their neck... kaput. So it essential to bench with a spotter or some sort of bench rack that won't let you crush yourself. The spotter is positioned at the head of the bench and assists the movement of the bar from there. If the lifter is using a wide grip the spotter's hands should come on the inside of the lifter's. Otherwise they should go on the outside. The spotter should always keep their hands under the bar and as the lifter approaches failure they should be much more alert for some sort of spotting to occur. At this point provide enough upward bar and as the lifter approaches failure they should be much more alert for some sort of spotting to occur. At this point provide enough upward momentum to the bar to get the bar back in the rack. Do not rip the bar out of the lifter's hands or overcompensate. The spotter should make that they are in a position to apply proper leverage during the lift. Standing too high or too low compared to the bench will hamper a spotter's ability to assist. Communicate with the hand off of the bar and reracking of the weight. I've seen accidents where the spotter 'thought' 'that the lifter had the weight and released it. Nothing like some broken ribs to learn this lesson. Dumbell Presses: Again the spotter should get in proper position to assist in this exercise. If this means kneeling on the ground so be it... The spotter's hands should go on the tricep just beyond the elbow. The thumb should wrap around and support the lifter's forearm. This is to prevent a dumbell from moving laterally... a guarantee for a dislocated shoulder on an exercise like behind the neck press. As the lifter reaches failure the spotter applies force at this location to help in the positive motion and to prevent lateral movement. Again communicate on the dumbell handoff! Comments? Garry From mfsinc@indirect.com Sun Oct 20 06:19:30 PDT 1996 Article: 73704 of misc.fitness.weights Path: news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!cornellcs!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.uio.no!news.nacamar.de!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.magicnet.net!news1.good.net!news.good.net!news.goodnet.com!news From: Kelly Mc Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights Subject: Re: spotting for squats Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:03:28 -0700 Organization: MFSInc & DFInc Lines: 22 Message-ID: <3267D480.303B@indirect.com> References: <3262A0F7.3ED7@ihgp.ih.lucent.com> <541vok$1f1e@news.goodnet.com> <326551D5.7F39@utech.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tempe-ts8-5.goodnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) Ted Chang wrote: > > What is the proper way to spot a squat Whatever way the guy you are spotting wants you to. In my case I like the following method: Place you hands on my belt as I shoulder the bar and step back. When I'm in position stand about 10" behind me with your arms extended under my arms (just so you can grab me at the bottom of my rib cage)but don't touch me. As I start to lower the weight, you do a squat right along with me so that your body stay the same in relationship to where I am. As I start to stand up you go with me. If I need some assistance, grab me firmly at the bottom of my rib cage and lats and continue to stand up. Use your legs to help lift, don't try to use your arms.(by just trying to lift with your arms you tend to push the lifter forward) If there is serious trouble and you need more, wrap your arms tightly around my chest pull yourself in tight against my back and again finish the squat with your legs. As you have probably noticed this particular style of spotting is not for the homophobic. Those who are may feel uncomfortable with the closeness necessary to spot correctly. Big Mac From keric@cyberiron.com Fri Feb 7 21:40:27 PST 1997 Article: 98436 of misc.fitness.weights Path: news.u.washington.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!207.67.253.7!atmnet.net!not-for-mail From: keric@cyberiron.com (Eric Anderson) Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights Subject: Re: HOW TO SPOT WOMEN ON SQUATS?????? Date: 8 Feb 1997 00:14:44 GMT Organization: CyberIron Bodybuilding Lines: 37 Message-ID: <5dgghk$ink@newshub.atmnet.net> References: <19970207221100.RAA13389@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.67.199.12 X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] stuartjl@aol.com wrote: > >How exactly do you spot a girl on squats if you don't know her and she > >asks ya fur one. > >I mean do you do the usual get close (where crotch tuches butt > >ocassionally) support the chest firmly and haul upward?????? or do you > >play the gentleman and grab the bar (supposing she isin't squatting > >something you can't upright row) or think safety first and hope you don't > >get a boner?????? > >JM > > Just in case you're serious: You stand close but bend your knees a bit so > that if she bumps you it's in your legs. If you have to help, put your > hands on her ribs and a bit to the side (where the intercostals are), so > that you'll be pulling on something solid. > > Don't ever grab the bar, it's a bad idea to change the feel of the > exercise for someone who's already struggling and worrying. When someone > does that to me (or the equivalent sin of spotting by grabbing my wrists > rather than cupping my elbows), I feel as if whatever control I still have > is being taken away from me, and even if it's not dangerous its a huge > distraction at preciselyt he wrong time. Ehh.. I'd say a normal position behind (i.e. fairly close) but slide your arms under her armpits parallel with her torso, and instead of coming across the chest, come straight up to the side of her breasts onto her shoulders. Almost the same effect without the grope.. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric Anderson First Virtual Holdings CyberIron Bodybuilding Unix Sys Admin San Diego, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------- "..and then my doctor said my nose wouldn't bleed so much if I just kept my finger outta there!" -- Ralph Wiggum From chass@unixg.ubc.ca Fri Feb 7 21:43:52 PST 1997 Article: 98347 of misc.fitness.weights Path: news.u.washington.edu!worldnet.att.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!chass From: chass@unixg.ubc.ca (Calvin Hass) Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights Subject: Re: topheavy (was Re: morons in the gym!) Date: 7 Feb 1997 18:10:54 GMT Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada Lines: 42 Message-ID: <5dfr7e$gjg$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <19970131192101.OAA26950@ladder01.news.aol.com> <32FB5076.726B@megsinet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: netinfo2.ubc.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] 0to60 (0to60*@megsinet.net) wrote: : Garrett T. Kojaku wrote: : > I've only seen one proper spot of a squat at this gym and that was two : > women; most guys I know have a major problem with it (if they know how it : > should be done and the responsibility it entails), and I admit I do : > too; I won't spot anyone for squats and I don't want anyone spotting me. : Important point, how DO you spot for someone doing squats? This is the method I use, but others no doubt with have their ways too: - watch a previous set to see how deep they go, and what sort of style they use - ask them if they want a "light" spot - double-check the collars - before unracking, stand a couple feet back from the lifter to give them some room to back out - optional: give a quick pat on the lifter's obliques and reassure them that you're there, and that this weight is "nothing" - on unracking, get a sense of how heavy the set will be for the lifter by the way they walk out - during the lift stand directly behind the lifter, bend your knees slightly and have your hands near the sides of their chest, under their armpits - do not touch them at all during the lift - go down with the lifter, in a wide-stance squat style - optional: make the lifter mad, hurl insults, ask them if they want to be small all their life, etc. - if the lifter fails, press the inside of your arms into the lats under the armpits and lift them, keeping them close to your body. Your hands may need to cross over their chest if they fail forward. - on rerack, press the bar against the uprights when you've seen their hands are clear, they are ready, and they have begun trying to rerack. It is your job to make sure both pegs are caught and that the bar does not hit the rack and bounce out. Chojan. -- Calvin Hass chass@unixg.ubc.ca Weights, Windsurf, Mountain Bike, University of British Columbia Trials, Ski, Formula SAE Racing ... N O F E A R ... From ez026022@dilbert.ucdavis.edu Fri Sep 19 22:09:23 PDT 1997 Btkidd (btkidd@aol.com) wrote: : >I just had a terrible workout session. Here's what : >happened. I was doing military press and I needed a spot : >on my heavy workset (220lbs). So I looked around and I saw : >this pretty big guy. He's also a staff member at the gym. : >So I concluded that he would be a good, at least a decent : >spotter. (BIG mistake!) I asked him to spot me and here : >is exactly what I told him. "I'm going for 4 to 6 reps. : >Give me a lift off on the count of 3." On the lift off, I : >counted to 3 and pressed the weight up to the starting : >position. I expected at least 30% help on the lift off, : >but from what I recall, I pressed 90-95% of the weight : >myself on the lift off. "Hmm.., so I got a bad lift off," : >I thought to myself, "no big deal, just do the set." On : >the 3rd rep, I got stuck half way up. I held the weight at : >a stand still for 2 seconds and I thought "now would be a Well, the same thing happened to me before, and I got angry just like you. But, after I stopped and thought about it, I realized that the spotter was doing me a favor. I mean, most people who go to the gym would like to lift some decent poundage but mostly go to make themselves look better-ie, bodybuild. I realized that if I need some guy to help me move the weights after only the *third* rep, that I was lifting a weight that would both: a.) probably not help me to look better; b.) probably greatly increase my chances of injury. Granted, I train in the low repetition regime every few months, which sometimes takes me as low as four reps...so I don't know if that was the case for you, or if you always train in the range. Personally, I allow only one, maybe two of these "touch" reps before I rack the weight....because, after that, the spotter is doing a significant amount of the work. Al From aforrest@ouray.cudenver.edu Fri Sep 19 22:10:39 PDT 1997 In article <01bcc09b$8d18d510$b0c62e89@twen-desk2> "Tianyu Wen" writes: > >I just had a terrible workout session. Here's what >happened. I was doing military press and I needed a spot >on my heavy workset (220lbs). So I looked around and I saw >this pretty big guy. He's also a staff member at the gym. >So I concluded that he would be a good, at least a decent >spotter. (BIG mistake!) I asked him to spot me and here >is exactly what I told him. "I'm going for 4 to 6 reps. >Give me a lift off on the count of 3." On the lift off, I >counted to 3 and pressed the weight up to the starting >position. I expected at least 30% help on the lift off, >but from what I recall, I pressed 90-95% of the weight >myself on the lift off. "Hmm.., so I got a bad lift off," >I thought to myself, "no big deal, just do the set." On >the 3rd rep, I got stuck half way up. I held the weight at >a stand still for 2 seconds and I thought "now would be a >good time for a little help from my spotter." But I got >nothing! So I lowered the weight to the support and asked >him "Did you touch the bar?" He answered "No, I did not >touch the bar at all." "No shit! What the fuck were you >doing?!" I thought to myself. I was so PISSED that my >whole workout session was ruined. See, now next time you'll just have to take out than anger on your next set.... >I realize that there are many experienced BBs and PLs in >this newsgroup, but do you consider yourself a good >spotter? If so, what attributes/factors make you a good >spotter? Was it wrong of me to expect a gym staff member >to spot well? One person's idea of a good spotter is often the next's spotting nightmare. Personally, I've never wanted a spotter to help on the lift-off, and I make a point of telling spotters never to touch the bar at all until I ask for it and, when they do, I don't want them using more than a light touch with two fingers unless it's absolutely necessary. Much of the time, I find that they don't have to do more than just look like they're helping guide the bar and they might not even be touching it after all--what I tell spotters is that as long as the bar is still moving, no matter how slowly, don't provide any more assistance. So, someone used to the spotting style I prefer might well do more or less what you describe above. When I'm acting as someone else's spotter, instructions like you gave above tend to make me react internally with, "oh, no, it's yet another person who wants to get me to do a set of upright rows with the bar--and call it a 'personal record.'" Having spotted for too many people who want me to do six or eight rows with a weight they can't lift unassisted for a complete rep, I'm rather less enthusiastic about that particular spotting approach. In any case, it sounds to me quite like someone could listen to your instructions and spot as you described without any malice or incompetence involved. -- "An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup." -- H.L. Mencken Trygve Lode | 6529 Lakeside Circle, Littleton, CO 80125 | (303) 470-1011 From krust*spamsucks*@netrover.com Sun Sep 21 20:15:50 PDT 1997 loonytun@primenet.com wrote in article <5vuu7k$c4f@nntp02.primenet.com>... > Since you're on the general subject of women and weightlifting, I've > been curious about something for awhile. I don't work out in a gym, so > this probably won't become an issue, but how do you spot women on > squats? > > With guys, I've seen the spotter stand behind the lifter and reach > around to his chest area. If you do this spotting a female, you're > probably gonna get a 5 lb'er in a very uncomfortable location! > > Tom We've had this discussion before, I believe. To spot a woman on squats, first find out if she wants a spot. Then let her know where you're going to grab her: on her ribcage just above her waist. Unless she's 2 foot 3 or 90 years old, this should put you a pretty safe distance away from her boobs. Put your hands on her sides, where I've specified, and gently help her get the weight up if she needs it. That's all. Phone numbers, sporting a five-star, breakfast... that's all your problem. :) Krista From apt18_DIE_SPAMMER_.@elec.canterbury.ac.nz Fri Sep 26 21:31:24 PDT 1997 Krista Scott wrote: > > Put your hands on her sides, where I've specified, and gently help > her get the weight up if she needs it. A female I used to spot prefered the spot the same way I (a bloke, if you cant tell from a name like Adam) do, as the above can be uncomforatble, and a bit scary, when the spotter gets their 'line' wrong, and feels as if they are going to push you out from under the weight. This woman, and I, prefered a spot similar to the normal manner. The spotter satnds behing the lifter, with feet outside and behind. The spotter reaches under the lifters arms, around the lifters waist in the usual manner. The differnce is the spotter hands are in fists, palms up, with the hands pulled away from the torso of the lifter. The hands of the spotter do not touch the lifter. (I think there might be some "energy force flows" or other mystic stuff comming into not using your hands, as well as the personal space issue.) This applies any spotting forces from the forearms to the whole ribcage-chest area, over a wide surface area to minimise pressure points. The reasoning behind this is that, as well as the reason above, the most likely fail proceedure is from collapsing foward. This method provides a corrective force, over a wide surfce area. As mentioned this is what several guys I know prefer, and one woman. I would definity second Krista's point about getting claification prior to the lift. -- ---------------------------------------------------- Adam P. R. Taylor Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering University of Canterbury Private Bag 4800 Christchurch NEW ZEALAND Email: apt18@elec._DIE_SPAMMER_DIE_.canterbury.ac.nz From tag@hiwaay.net Tue Apr 14 21:39:06 PDT 1998 John M. Williams wrote: > rmanndelete@escape.ca (Bob Mann) writes: > > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:02:58 EDT, wrote: > > > > >Ditto Krista, > > > It definetly depends on the spotter. I'm fortunate enought to have > > >the same lifting partner for the last 8 years. Just having the hands > > >there mentally keeps you focused on the lift. The lifter shouldn't be > > >able to tell how much the spotter helped until he's done and has to ask. > > >Great for those last few forced reps. > > > > I can see why you feel this way but for me, I would rather know during > > the lift that it is me because I start guessing and lose focus. > > I want my spotters to be ready but to keep their hands away from the > > bar until I say so. > > I agree. My intructions: "Don't touch the bar until it starts going > in the wrong direction." And there is the most important message in the thread: communication. There are many ways to spot "correctly" but what really matters is what the lifter wants. I know what my wife wants when I'm spotting her and she knows what I want so there's not much communication necessary. However, when someon else asks me for a spot I always ask questions so that I do exactly what the person wants me to do. It's his (or her) set and my job as a spotter is to facilitate his effort to make the set as productive as possible. _____________________________________ "Bil & Tag" a.k.a. William and Tracey Greene From khobmanNOSPAM@webster.sk.ca Sat Sep 5 07:37:24 PDT 1998 In article <6shsek$7aj$1@heliodor.xara.net>, "STUART W. HOPE" wrote: > my training partner & I could use some help here - we know how best to help > on the basics - chest press etc. but are uncertain on how best use each > other/be used on other exercises such as pull ups, (support feet or waist > etc). Any suggestions or website ideas folks? > Here's my suggestion. LIFT THE WEIGHT YOURSELF!! Lift yourself in the pull-up. The idea of a spotter is to prevent injury for the person lifting. Tell me Stuart - how are you going to hurt yourself doing a pull-up? Seriously, I'm sick and tired of seeing guys in the gym doing the two man lift. Guy was doing a lying triceps extension with the E-Z curl bar and failed when he partner could know longer lift the weight. Since I'm the resident powerlifter in the gym he asked me if I would continue the spot after his partner got fatiqued from spotting him in the previous set. This guy is one of the instructors in our gym! Too damn much spotting. You want to prove to the world how strong you are - get on the platform and lets see what you can do! -- Keith Hobman From lylemcd@onr.com Thu Oct 29 20:50:20 PST 1998 Deepsquatter wrote: > I broke the cardinal rule...never ask the idiots to do any thing more complicated than sell you a water or a carbo force.......no wonder I never see this guy actually doing anything. Jason, Not to defend the average gym employee but did you tell him exactly what you were doing? IMO, it is the responsbility of the spotter to ask the person being squatted what they are doing, how many reps, how they would like to be spotted, etc. But by the same token, it is the spottee's responsibility to make sure that the spotters know exactly what to do. Most gym members don't train with pauses so the average person spotting, seeing you pause at the bottom of a movement, will assume you're stuck and rush into help. Which sounds like what happened. Of course, what pisses me off even more is when I'm training alone (either in a power rack or on the bench press with the safety supports) and some dickhead takes it upon himself to spot me when I haven't asked for it. Having to shake their stupid ass off in the middle of a set does wonders for concentration. My 2 cents, Lyle Mcdonald Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:40:51 -0500 From: "Wes Hanna" Subject: Re: Strength_List: Lifting Accident > Now, for you spotters....slap these idiots up side the head! The > thing with asking unfamiliar spotters is that you need to tell them > ~exactly~ what you want them to do and how they need to respond. Not > saying it is your fault but, in the future don't be shy about giving > instructions. It is your butt that is on the line so make sure they > know exactly what is expected of them and what they need to do. If > you did this already....then slap them again for good measure!! ;-) Even explicit instructions don't always do the job with inexperienced spotters. I had a incident several years ago where I was doing squats for triples and asked a couple of guys to spot the ends of the bar. Told them to keep their hands off unless I told them to take it or I started falling over. Needless to say that didn't happen. When I stalled slightly just above parallel the guy on the right grabs the bar and lifts for all he's worth - the guy on the left followed instructions...at least until the bar was about 20-30 degrees from horizontal. Managed to finish the lift, without torquing my back six ways to Sunday, completely out of breath from yelling "Hands OFF!!" In their defence, I believe they were intimidated by the weight and pretty nervous just spotting. They didn't wait to see if I had truly missed the lift and didn't know just how little it can take to spot even a max attempt lift. Food for thought when you're recruiting spotters. Wes Hanna Lansing,MI whanna@ix.netcom.com Subject: Favorite Gym Yell? Any Yell WIll Do... From: "wcampbell" Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:05:16 -0800 With regards to a good spot...it doesn't bother me if someone tells me " Its all you man!", or anything else just as long as they let ME finish MY reps...theres nothing worse than asking someone for a spot in a gym and then having them take the bar through the tough spots. Its a catch 22. You can't really chastise them, because they are the one doing you the favor ( although I have seen it happen...not pretty), but you want to drill them when they take the weight when you know you were about to finish the rep and were just going through a tough part. Usually, to avoid this, I'll let them know up front not to touch the bar until I ask for "...ungh...a little help....ungh...". ...and if I am in the position of having to 'assist' with the weight...I start with one finger on either side and give as little as possible to make the lift. This way he/she knows I am letting them work as hard as they can, and I am being honest with them and their attempt. Afterward, I will give them as accurate a description as possible of how much weight I actually felt I contributed to their lift and on how many reps. Its a science and an art, but good spots are hard to come by...all the more reason to find a good training partner and iron out these do's and don't before you ever set foot in the gym. Walter L Campbell NSCA-CPT From ejm2@dana.ucc.nau.edu Fri Mar 3 20:04:33 PST 2000 : >Anyway, I was wondering how you can have one person spot a : squat. If you : >had two people spotting, that seems easy, but one? I haven't : figured out : >how that works... : Behind the lifter.....if the lifter requires assistance the : spotter puts his arms under the lifters arms and puts his hands : on the lifters chest. Can be a little awkward (or enjoyable) if : the lifter is female but better to get help this way than kill : yourself. Can also assist by pulling on the bar but this is : less effective as the weight gets heavy. The good spotter will : squat with the lifter to be ready to respond. The good spotter : will also not touch the fucking bar unless he absolutely has to! Officially 2nd'ed. DON'T EVER LET THEM TOUCH THE BAR! The spotter's hands should end up on the upper pecs to keep you from leaning forward and losing it due to awkward positioning. The spotter should also be able to gauge, quickly, the amount of help you need so that he/she may apply it slowly enough that your balance isn't screwed. When the spotter has his/her hands on your chest, their body should be following the motion of the squat (ie: they're not leaning over to "pull you up"). Yes you'll be close...if ya don't wanna get that close ta someone during a lift, then set the safety pins maybe three inches under where you'd end up at the bottom of your squat. This technique is light years safer than allowing two spotters to just grab the ends of the bar and put it back/jerk you out of position. : > : >Also, if you're by yourself and you can't get up out of the : squat, what's : >the best way to dump the barbell onto the cage's safety bars : without killing : >yourself?!? With the safety pins set correctly, you should only have to relax or round your back a bit to set the bar down. For my height, I stand six foot even, the non-adjustable power racks at our gym are at a level that I can safely round my back a bit and set the bar down. Happy squating, e From lylemcd@onr.com Fri Mar 3 20:05:38 PST 2000 Eric Lorenzo wrote: > > Just started doing squats at the gym and feel pretty proud about it. It's > always been an intimidating exercise to me, but it feels good to do them > now. I'm the only person at the gym I know of who does squats without using > the smith press. Actually, I should say I'm the only guy who does, there > are a couple of women who do squats with just the barbell. > > Anyway, I was wondering how you can have one person spot a squat. If you > had two people spotting, that seems easy, but one? I haven't figured out > how that works... Simple: they stand behind you. IF you fail, they grab you around your chest and help you back up (they should lift you from the chest beceaus spots from the waist or the bar and the spotter will tend to push you forward and really get you into trouble). IMO, it's actually better than a 2 person spot. Because with a 2 person spot, the spotters have to comunicate well or they will get you hurt (if one grabs the bar and the other doesn't). Considering that most folks in the gym are too retarded to proparly spot a bench press, I wouldn't trust a 2 person spot except in a hardcore power gym where: a. the gym members knew what they were doing b. were focused enough not to be staring at some girl's ass while you are getting crushed > Also, if you're by yourself and you can't get up out of the squat, what's > the best way to dump the barbell onto the cage's safety bars without killing > yourself?!? You should have the safety pins set just slightly below your deepest position. If you get stuck, just relax a little bit further and dump the bar. Once you do it once or twice, you'll realize that there is no real danger. Lyle From steeleystephen@hotmail.com Wed Jun 21 22:18:20 PDT 2000 Ornette wrote: > Anyway, the guy told me he was going to try 5 or > 6 reps. I helped him get the weight off the holder and put my hands under > the bar outside his grip. He easily did 6 reps and then a 7th. I > encouraged him to do an 8th which he did. He is one of those guys that understates his ability so that he can impress you, a total stranger, on how he can blast through his own limitations. 8 is almost double of 5. If you were helping him unrack, he was going heavy and 3 extra reps is more than surprisingly good. > When helping a stranger, not a workout partner, should you just spot till they > stop or try to get them to do extra reps. Had he injured himself on the extra > rep I would have felt awful. What's your experience? If he injured himself it is his own bonehead fault. You were doing him a favour by spotting him. Agreeing to spot some stranger is not offering your services as a personal trainer and physician. Most of us have been stuck spotting these guys that do air reps. They tell you they are going for 8 and then cannot even do the first one. They say they want to do two more but your arms are getting tired from lifting the weight off their chest. I have learned to just let the weight pin them for a while and then help them get it off. That usually cuts down the number of reps "they", meaning "I" do to one. I never mind spotting people when they just want a hand getting an extra rep or for security on a heavy lift. I do mind wearing my biceps out so some guy can say he benched 50lbs more than he could actually get off his chest. I spot so that on the last rep, however many that may be, the person is sure he could not do another one on his own. More than that seems to be pointless. From A-DIAZ@prodigy.net Mon Feb 4 20:59:53 PST 2002 Article: 707038 of misc.fitness.weights Path: news.u.washington.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr17.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Alex" Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights References: Subject: Re: Me? a spotter? Lines: 42 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.105.72.112 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr17.news.prodigy.com 1012758410 ST000 64.105.72.112 (Sun, 03 Feb 2002 12:46:50 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 12:46:50 EST Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCA[S@QPPY]GKCPLFTBGR_N@ATM[@GZ_GYO^RR@ETUCCNSKQFCY@TXDX_WHSVB]ZEJLSNY\^J[CUVSA_QLFC^RQHUPH[P[NRWCCMLSNPOD_ESALHUK@TDFUZHBLJ\XGKL^NXA\EVHSP[D_C^B_^JCX^W]CHBAX]POG@SSAZQ\LE[DCNMUPG_VSC@VJM Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 17:46:50 GMT Xref: news.u.washington.edu misc.fitness.weights:707038 The one hand spot caused the funny looks. I personally don't like to be spotted by one hand. It seems to make the bar feel like its not balanced and it doesn't feel safe. Next time make sure you have both hands near or on the bar. > So I'm coming up on thirty. I haven't been extremely active the last five or > six years and my body fat has climbed into the mid twenties. I am a big dude > and naturally fairly strong. But I don't look cut or impressive or anything > like that. So, when I was in the free weight area of the gym for the first > time in a long time on Friday doing cable rows and as I finished up this > kid, probably about 19 asked me if I would mind spotting him I was > surprised. But, I am a fairly nice guy, no Watson I am not trying to move in > on your teritory, so I said sure. I quickly looked over the bar and saw that > he had about 250LBs that he was working with. Bench presses btw. > > So this kid started to "fail" about half way through his 5th rep. I reached > down and put an open palm under the bar and just barely gave a little > pressure up and then coached him into forcing the last rep out on his own. > > I got funny looks from the kid and the rest of the people in the gym that > were close. Did I do something that is out of line for gym ettiquete? The > pressure on the bar never got to be more and I could have easily reached > down with the other hand and saved him if he had started to have real > problems. Back in high school this is what a spot was. Has it changed? Is > there something specific I am supposed to be doing? > > If I am going to venture off of the machines once a week and into the free > weight room I don't want to make an ass outa myself everytime someone asks > me to spot. Any thoughts on this. > > Ryan > > From mistresskrista@home.com Mon Feb 4 21:06:16 PST 2002 "Alan McClure" wrote in message news:u5qubhsl8i6605@corp.supernews.com... > > > Well, I would use two hands too. However, if the one hand is positioned > right in the middle, then balance shouldn't be an issue. I also doubt > everyone was looking at him thinking "Oh my lord, he is using one hand, it > will feel unbalanced!" I think that two hands seems much safer than one, > but I think the real issue is that many people expect you to practically > curl the bar and rack it for them. I personally just won't do it. I don't > touch the bar unless they really need it, and then just enough to help them > do it. If they are really not going to make it, then I will help more, but > not otherwise. It also helps to be clear with people before you start. If I am asked for a spot (which rarely happens, but it does happen), I ask the person beforehand how they would like to be spotted, and establish some quick mutual agreement on the expected level of assistance (would they like help unracking/reracking, how many expected reps are they going for in the set, do they want me to help thru a sticking point, or if the bar is actually starting to travel downwards, etc.). If needed, I make it clear that I'm not rowing 200 lbs. off their body. Nobody has had a problem with that yet, but if someone expected that, they could find themselves another spotter. To spot a bench press I use a "potential" overhand grip (i.e. if needed, I would "row" the bar up). I've seen folks use an underhand grip, palms under the bar and facing the ceiling, which would mean they'd be "curling" the bar for assistance. I don't think this position is as strong as the overhand row position. Although a spotter shouldn't be relieving the lifter of any appreciable load (the equivalent of a few pounds), the overhand row position is a much stronger one just in case the lifter does something idiotic. Krista -- ------------------------- www.stumptuous.com/weights.html mistresskrista at rogers dot com