From: rmann@escape.ca (Bob Mann) Subject: Re: Leg Curls & Extensions Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:16:27 GMT sde@geocities.com (Sandeep De) wrote: > >You become a better jumper by a] strengthening the jumping muscles and >b] practicing jumping with your new strength. Don't try to emulate >sports skills in the weight room,it just won't work. Focus on the >squat - which utilizes many of the muscles used in jumping, and >consciously make an effort to improve your technique. Leg Curls are >necsesary to develop the hamstring - over half of all knee injuries >occur because of an imbalance in strength between the hamstring and >the quadriceps. A more common problem is hamstring pulls/tears. >Screw power cleans (can't wait to hear the junk about >this one). Basically you are doing an explosive deadlift that brings >that heavy weight across the delicate and inferior (strength wise) >tissues of the shoulder joint. Very dangerous. You can't make yourself >more explosive. You can make yourself more explosive. However if you are not explosive already it isn't going to change you into an explosive type, it may just improve it a bit. Sprinters use power cleans although I don't know if this is science or tradition. >Focus on becoming stronger and better in technique and >it will be far more important. A combination of heavy squats and high rep leg presses helped me a lot. My favourite was to do 20 rep leg presses and keep adding plates until I couldn't get 20 reps (or 25 is even better) Alternate this workout with a heavy squat workout once a week. Finish off the squat workout with one set of leg press at a medium weight for as many as you can take. > >Leg extensions place your Anterior Cruciate Ligament in a dangerous >position. If you would like more information on this please check out >the article on my site, under Advanced Training. Leg extensions are a great warm up before squats or leg press. I would recommend to do only the top half of the movement to avoid the dangerous forces on the knee. I also recommend to stick to weights that you can do high rep sets with. I start with a set of 50 and increase the weight/lower the reps until I can barely get 20 reps. > >Hope this helps. > >Sandeep De >The Power Factory >http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/4039/mainpage.htm Bob Mann From: Bill Roberts Subject: Re: Leg Curls & Extensions Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:07:00 -0500 On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Ashley Mort wrote: > I'm training to increase my jumping ability. I've been told that > leg curls and leg extensions are not very effective exercises in general. > Do you think Leg Curls are necessary? I already do squats, power cleans, > and other lower body work. Are there any alternative exercise to leg > curls? > Well, what do your legs look like in a side view? If your hamstrings are full, thick, and come out further than your butt does, then you do not need to do leg curls any more. If this isn't the case, then you should not only do the leg curls, but should perhaps add slightly-bent-knee deadlifts, and/or front squats to Olympic depth. (Which means, ALL the way down.) Actually, I am not writing from the perspective of wanting only to increase jumping ability. Try misc.fitness.mjordan. Ever notice how big Michael's hamstrings are? Gotta have big, strong hamstrings to jump, ya know. -- Bill From: "David Kohl Jr." Subject: Re: training CALVES Date: 11 Jan 1997 05:30:24 GMT As far as I am informed.. The Calves are the same type of muscle as the forearm.. as they need to be worked Heavy and HIGH REP to get good results.. I have had good success with this.. On my calf machine with I do 110lbs for 15 Reps / 4 Sets .. I can barely stand when I'm done but My calves look A-1 . For my body size. My calves are same Diameter as my neck . And are the classic heart shape. It burns when it is done right .. And I mean burns. D. wrote in article <32d6b47e.1446667@news>... > A friend of mine has fairly chunky quads, but when he is in shorts, it > looks ridiculous due to his small (to none) calves. He works them > when he works legs, with medium to heavy weight. About 3-6 sets, and > 8 - 10 reps. Got any ideas other then shit genetics? > Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 From: "Einar B. Gilberg" Subject: Re: Seated vs. Standing Calf Raises The primary muscle used in the seated calf-raise is the soleus - the long muscle which makes your calves look big from the front. The secondary muscle used in this excercise is the gastrocnemius. With the standing calf-raises, it's opposite. The primary muscle used is the gastrocnemius and the secondary muscle is the soleus. Anyways, do both excercises in your calves workout. I've found it's best to do seated calf-raises in one workout, then switching to lying calf-raises in the legpress the next workout. I switch between these two. Doing both excercises in one workout may work for some, but personally I don't have the strength/stamina to do both. 3-4 sets of calf work per workout seems to work best for me. From: DeVona Subject: Re: Leg Workout Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:39:33 GMT Bob Lefevre wrote: > You raised something that I've been wondering about. I've been having > trouble getting my legs to respond -- I do 4-5 sets of leg presses, 12-15 > reps once or twice a week, followed by 30 minutes on an exercise bike (I > also do upper body on other days). I've made some gains since I started > working out several months ago, but not as much as in my upper body. It > could be genetics, or the fact that I don't have squats available as an > option at my gym, but I've also heard that its not good to do aerobics > right after anaerobic. Any thoughts on this? I never do any aerobic exercise after legs--if I've done a good job working my legs, they're too wiped out to bounce around doing anything else. I'd really pursue squats if I were you--If your gym has a barbell and plates, you can do squats. There's nothing better for building legs than squats. What I do to challenge my legs is to do one-leg leg presses: use an on-your-back leg press (versus sitting) and put your legs a shoulder-width apart on the platform and then remove one leg. Begin with 50 pounds for 12 reps and then go up in weight from there. Make sure you go to parallel (at least) with your thighs. This gives me a tightness that I don't get from 2-leg presses. Also try doing 1-leg-at-a-time leg extensions. Your gym may have a Cybex machine that is just for this. This can really build up your quads. You didn't mention leg curls--you need to add them to get your hams strong. In addition, when you do your back, add straight-leg dead lifts. (Make sure you use good form with these or you can get really screwed up really fast.) SL deads are great for hams too. DeVona From: Henry Kuczynski Subject: Re: Any effective way to increase the calf muscles??? Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:44:13 -0800 James Krieger wrote: > > Squats, squats, squats! Oh, and try standing calf raises for your calves. Straight leg calf presses on the leg press supersetted with bent leg calf presses. Go slow (no bouncing). Do a full range of movement. To hit the outer calf do them with your feet together. Remember to stretch them really good before. For more detailed info. e-mail me. Henry Kuczynski From: DeVona Subject: Re: CALF QUESTION Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:45:37 GMT adm wrote: > > lizard35 wrote > > > I am having trouble with my calves with respect to recovery. I > > do seated calf raises, usually 3 sets of 20, and standing calf raises, > > 4 sets 15. This is what I am currently doing, but I have tried every > > conceivable combination of weights, reps, days off, order of > > exercises, etc. i stretch the shit out of them before i work them, and > > between sets. it is to no avail. > > My problem is the level of muscle soreness which I get. My calves > > literally knot up, and remain that way for periods of up to a week at > > times. I'm talking vomit pain. Not the aching burn of a good, hard > > set, but a nauseating, lingering, hobbling, borderline crippling bunch > > of shit... > > I know a lot of people who don't need much direct calf work to make them > grow. Sounds like you are doing WAY too many sets for your calves; I > respond best to just doing 2 x 15 once every five days: I'll do a set of > standing raises to failure, then reduce the weight to nothing and continue > doing reps to failure again. Two sets of these and I'm in PAIN, and my > calves still knot up for a couple days, but they grow from it. I alternate > seated raises, standing raises, or one-leg raises every five days. > > You are in that much pain because calf raises are such an intense isolation > exercise, and your calves respond well to training; they don't need so many > sets. You may even get maximum benefit from only ONE set per week. Try that > if you still knot up. Agreed--a little calf work can go a long way. I do calf raises 2x a week, but I only do 3 sets. Not long ago, I decided to really blast my calves and did a workout like Lizard's. I hobbled around for days. DeVona From mstaples@poboxes.com Tue Apr 1 21:28:09 PST 1997 Subject: Re: Anyone else get ill immediately after working legs? Avoidable? Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:42:51 GMT Al Cracker wrote: > > I started weight-lifting with a friend at a local gym about four months ago. > We excersize four times a week, alternating between back and biceps, chest and > triceps, shoulders and traps, and legs. The legs are killing me. > > Every time we do legs, I end up feeling nauseous about ten to fifteen minutes > after working my quads (which we do first). This never happens with any other > muscle groups, just legs. Is there some way to avoid or lessen this affect? > Half the time I get so nauseous I am forced to cut short the last half of my > legs routine just to avoid getting sick. > > It almost seems as if I am overworking my quads, as if they are demanding so > much from my body, so suddenly, it is making me sick. I suppose this is > possible, but it's not happening to my friend and I'm not working my quads so > hard I'm seeing stars or anything. It just seems unnatural. Any advice would > be appreciated. > > PS: other than this, I'm very healthy and I never experience similar symptoms > on any workout except legs. > > Thanks. This is a sign of a good workout, I think. It sounds like you are on the right track if you are hitting it so hard you are getting sick. It's all part of the game. -- --------------------- Matt Staples E-Mail: mstaples@poboxes.com http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~mstaples --------------------- From: Keith Subject: Re: Anyone else get ill immediately after working legs? Avoidable? Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:43:52 -0800 On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, Al Cracker wrote: > I started weight-lifting with a friend at a local gym about four months ago. > We excersize four times a week, alternating between back and biceps, chest and > triceps, shoulders and traps, and legs. The legs are killing me. > > Every time we do legs, I end up feeling nauseous about ten to fifteen minutes > after working my quads (which we do first). This never happens with any other > muscle groups, just legs. Is there some way to avoid or lessen this affect? > Half the time I get so nauseous I am forced to cut short the last half of my > legs routine just to avoid getting sick. > > It almost seems as if I am overworking my quads, as if they are demanding so > much from my body, so suddenly, it is making me sick. I suppose this is > possible, but it's not happening to my friend and I'm not working my quads so > hard I'm seeing stars or anything. It just seems unnatural. Any advice would > be appreciated. > > PS: other than this, I'm very healthy and I never experience similar symptoms > on any workout except legs. > > Thanks. > > I had the same problem on leg day when I started to increase the intensity. I tryed a few things. First I attempted to take sips of water after every set. I also tryed active recovery (immediately after finishing a set I would jump onto the tredmill and walk at about 4mi/hr). I could almost feel the lactic acid circulating out of my legs. This seemed to work most of the time, but not all the time. So then I decided to eat some carbs about two hours before my workout and mix a little OJ with my water (about half OJ half water, in my water jug (about 16oz total)). I drink a lot of water during my workout so the mixture only lasted through my squat sets but it seemed to be enough. I also agree with some of the other posts, more rest can't hurt. Now when I am done with my squats and leg presses I can hardly walk to the water fountain to refill, I also look crippled when I leave the gym. I love a good workout. Keith From: mabehr@mit.edu (Michael Behr) Subject: Re: Anyone else get ill immediately after working legs? Avoidable? Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 17:04:49 -0500 In article <5hns98$cfb@ratty.wolfe.net>, al@speakeasy.org (Al Cracker) wrote: > Every time we do legs, I end up feeling nauseous about ten to fifteen minutes > after working my quads (which we do first). This never happens with any other > muscle groups, just legs. Is there some way to avoid or lessen this affect? > Half the time I get so nauseous I am forced to cut short the last half of my > legs routine just to avoid getting sick. Three possibilities that I can think of, two of them are immediately fixable: a) to quote a friend, "Don't forget to breathe." You'd be amazed at how hard this is to remember sometimes. Make breathe during sets, and rest and catch your breath between them. b) drink water, but not too much. I don't know how your workout is structured, but if squats are late in the workout and you're sweating like crazy, you might have dehydrated yourself. c) lastly, and this is the one that you can't do much about right now, sauats and deadlifts hit your abs. I don't know how you work your quads, but either of those seem common. If you're using more weight than they're really strong enough to handle, you're going to end up with them going crazy. And you're going to curl into a little ball trying to hold your lunch down. This will, in time, go away, as long as they grow to accomodate the high squat weight. Maybe try a belt? -Mike From: tonyk@cc.usu.edu (Tony Kemp) Subject: Re: Anyone else get ill immediately after working legs? Avoidable? Date: 3 Apr 97 18:55:34 MDT << >>Every time we do legs, I end up feeling nauseous about ten to fifteen minutes >>after working my quads (which we do first). This never happens with any >>other >> This kind of thing used to happen to me. I found out it was because my blood sugar just dropped like a brick. Apparently in response to the heavy training, the resulting insulin levels wiped out any glycogen stores. Now I make sure I have a small amount of grape juice with me and I take sips of it between sets and I drink a lot of water. I haven't had a recurrence since I started doing that. It also helps to have some carbohydrates about a half hour to 45 minutes before the workout too. -- Tony Kemp tonyk@cc.usu.edu Web page: http://cc.usu.edu/~tonyk/ From: mmadsen@netcom.com (Matt Madsen) Subject: Re: Chest and Calve questions Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 19:10:22 GMT In article <33449889.3D23@martis.fi>, Jari Mutikainen wrote: >The best beef builder for the calves are the standing calf raises. >They hit the gastrocnemius, which is the 'big' calf muscle - with >the most growth potential. Actually, the soleus is a larger muscle (greater mass). It's simply deeper than the superficial gastrocnemius and not nearly as impressive. >But again, to achieve >the complete calf development you should include the seated calf raises >to your regimen as well. Only they can reach the soleus muscle. Soleus >is the smaller, (and flatter) calf muscle, which resides between the bulky >gastrocnemius and the bone. Standing calf-raises hit both the gastrocnemius and the soleus. Seated calf-raises isolate the soleus. Matt Madsen From: lylemcd@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald) Subject: Re: help w/ back of legs Date: 10 Apr 1997 14:30:27 GMT > For your inner thighs, try leg presses with your legs a bit > further apart than usual, and try leg extensions with your toes > pointed slightly outward. That second exercise does not work the inner thighs. In theory, it better works the vastus medialis (aka teardrop). For inner thigh (adductor muscle group), do wide stance leg presses/squats or the adductor machine (leg spreader). Bill Starr actually had a good article on training the adductors in this month's (ugg) Flex magazine. Too bad the rest of the mag was such shit. Lyle McDonald, CSCS From richf@javanet.com Wed Apr 16 20:40:46 PDT 1997 Have you ever leaned forward and squeezed really hard while sitting on the toilet, and felt light-headed? It's the same phenomenon you experience on a leg press with the seat set too "vertical". It's because you impair proper circulation to your head when you are squeezed at the waist and then exert all that effort. Your lungs and other organs cannot "go" where they normally would if you were not so compressed--the rib cage cannot expand--so they restrict flow in the aorta (the aorta runs from the heart down the length of the spine). Recline as much as you can. Or just do squats! rich f Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:46:20 -0700 From: "Eric M. Burkhardt" Subject: Re: (Weights-2) technical q >I was wondering...during lying leg curls, what's going to put the most stress on >the hams, the feet flexed towards the shins (dorsi flexion) or the toes pointed >(plantar flexion)? Thanx > When the ankle is dorsi flexed - toes pulled toward the shin - the gastrocnemius, which crosses the posterior aspects of the ankle and knee joints, is put on stretch and can contribute a great deal to knee flexion. Even when the ankle is plantar flexed - toes pointed down - the gastrocnemius probably contributes little if any to knee flexion (depending on the degree of plantar flexion), therefore the hamstrings would have to do most if not all of the work. Eric Burkhardt Strength and Conditioning Coach UC Irvine From bjorn.moren@mailbox.swipnet.se Mon May 5 21:41:39 PDT 1997 David S Turner wrote: >Dear All >I am tall (6'2") and am having trouble training my hamstrings. OK I >weigh 150 lbs and am about 4% BF. >Ok now the question. I have tried many method to train my hamstrings. >Semi Stiff legged Deads - Due to my back strength from normal deadlifts, >my back takes over, so I don't really feel my hams. Then you probably do them the wrong way. To me this is the king exercise for hams. Try this: grab a LIGHT barbell. Arch your back slightly. Keep your whole spine and pelvis together as ONE unit that never bends. Tilt the whole upper body forward. The ONLY movement should be in your hip joint and shoulder joint. Keep the barbell close to your body. You will not reach any lower than to your knees. You will feel a big stretch in your hams. Use the hams, and only the hams, to pull up again. Ok, the gluteus and some other muscles will work as well, but don't bother with that, the important thing is to not use your low back for anything else than stabilizing. I've noticed that you shouldn't totally lock out your knees, but keep them slightly bent, to prevent the tendon "over-ability" in the knee joint afterwards. Good luck! | Björn Morén, | bjorn.moren@mailbox.swipnet.se C o o D | From tmccull230@aol.com Mon May 5 21:43:22 PDT 1997 In article <5kio60$m6o$1@news.lth.se>, andreas@df.lth.se wrote: >Tom, would you mind elaborating on smith machine squats being better than >hacksquats? When you train a compound movement you always want to stimulate as many muscles as possible. This is what creates optimal growth. The smith squat activates more muscles than the hacksquat. Unless you are doing hacks with a barbell. The free weight squat activates more muscles than the smith squat. Hacksquats and leg presses are great if: 1) you don't know how to squat; 2) you have an injury; or 3) you genetically have a thick waiste and/or large glutes. Many times the pros will opt to use the leg press or hacksquat because they already have developed the leg and glute mass they need from years of squatting. The fact that they now only use a leg press or hacksquat to maintain this leg mass does not mean everyone else should be doing the same thing. Tom McCullough M.Ed., M.S.S. From: thekid@indiana.net (Steve Kidwell) Subject: Re: What is a "Donkey Calf?" Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:53:22 GMT On Fri, 16 May 1997 08:33:29 -0500, mkrandall1@mmm.com (Michael K. Randall) wrote: >I picked up a training schedule that works well for me, but one of the >exercises is listed as "Donkey Calf." I've never heard of it. Can you >describe it for me? Donkey Calf Raises are a good calf exercise. The only problem is you need a partner or a specialized machine to do them. If you have the machine it will be labeled on the side "Donkey Calf Machine." If you don't you are going to have to bend over and place your hands on a bench in front of you. Have your heels elevated on a step or block of wood. Then have someone climb onto your back. You are the 'donkey.' You then go up on your toes working the calves and use the person's body weight as your resistance. You want to fully stretch the calves on the way down. Doing calf presses on a leg press machine also has a similar effect. BTW, that is my favorite calf exercise. > >Also, are vertical flys the same as straight-arm dumbbell raises? The only vertical fly I am aware of is the one on my trousers! > >TIA, > >Mike Steve Kidwell, Natural Physique Systems http://www.indiana.net/~thekid/phys.htm From: Roel Subject: Re: Massbuilders: Squats and Deadlifts: How? Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:50:01 +0100 Siva Subramanian wrote: > Allow me to needlessly reiterate the unwritten rule: > > " Squats and Deadlifts are the greatest mass buliders " You're Allowed. It is a beautiful rule, it shoulde be something like every BB's mantra (or something like that). > My question is how or why do they affect the OVERALL body mass? > (or do they not?) Oh yes they do! > These exercises target mainly the lower body > (correct??) Lower back, Quads, Glutes, Hams. I suppose they also > hit the upper back to some extent. But is that enough to gain > significant mass OVERALL? Or when we refer to mass building with > squats and deadlifts should these be confined to mass built on > the LOWER body? For instance the chest does not get hit by these. > So to gain overall mass a program MUST include > Squats, DLs, Bench, Military. (Am I correct???) > > Can someone please clarify... Well, the Squat and the deadlift hit so many muscle groups at the sam time so many, that your body reacts like crazy on it. One of the reactions seems to be that the body secretes extra testosterone after these exercises. The reason these two exercises are strongly recommended is that this (the extra testosterone) only seems to happen with these two exercises. However in order to build overall strength (and mass) you should indeed do some benches and Shoulder presses (military is good). Some dipping with weight added wouldn't hurt either. But please, please do yourself a favor and do both deadlifts end squats, and see how you grow stronger (if you rest enough between them, that is.) I wish you the best and a lot of heavy squats and deadlifts Roel -- \\\|/// \\\ ~ ~ /// ( @ @ ) -----oOOo-(_)-oOOo------- mailto:r.vromen@student.utwente.nl "I haven't lost my mind yet... It's backed up on tape somewhere" ---------------Oooo------ oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) -- From beare@mindspring.com Fri Sep 19 22:13:06 PDT 1997 ssiva@bnr.ca (Siva Subramanian) said: > >--- >Allow me to needlessly reiterate the unwritten rule: > > " Squats and Deadlifts are the greatest mass buliders " > >My question is how or why do they affect the OVERALL body mass? Take a weight that is about 50% more weight than you can squat or deadlift with. Then unrack it, and hold it at arm's length (i.e. rack pull at the top) or on your shoulders (at the beginning of a squat). So now you're in the top position of either the squat or deadlift witha whole helluva lot of weight. Now just stand there. How exhausted do you get? How hard does every muscle strain to keep yourself from collapsing (you may need straps for the "deadlifts") Answer: real damn hard. when you wake up the next day, your whole friggin' body will be hurting. >(or do they not?) These exercises target mainly the lower body >(correct??) well, there's half of your body right there. > Lower back, Quads, Glutes, Hams. I suppose they also >hit the upper back to some extent. and another 20% or so. You're up to 70% of your body with either exercise. >But is that enough to gain >significant mass OVERALL? I dunno. Ask some of the monsters who squat with tons of weight. Take a look at them. It is no coincidence that these people have tremendous lower bodies, as well as incredibly well developed backs, necks, traps, and (deads) forearms. There is something known as an "isometric" contraction. Generally, one cannot perform an isometric contraction hard enough to produce significant results. >Or when we refer to mass building with >squats and deadlifts should these be confined to mass built on >the LOWER body? no. Supporting the weight has an overall effect on LBM, and IMHO affects the metabolism to an extent that helps you grow in other bodyparts you work. >For instance the chest does not get hit by these. >So to gain overall mass a program MUST include >Squats, DLs, Bench, Military. (Am I correct???) almost. You can thrash your entire body by doing squats, deadlifts, bench presses and chinups. > Can someone please clarify... there. I clarified. QUIT ASKING QUESTIONS!! Just do the exercises. you'll be so much happier!! :) Seriously. Just work for a few months on getting your squat and/or deadlift to tremendous poundages. Do bench presses and chinups as "assistance" work, but REALLY PUSH THE BIG ONES! Try to get the poundage on the sq/dl up as high as possible while performing the exercise correctly. Eat and sleep as much as possible, and watch how your body grows! cogito ergo SQUAT! Rob and Sonia "It's a great day for hockey" - the late Badger Bob From: PDill123@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 19:43:17 -0700 (MST) Subject: (Weights-2) Quad Training **NBAF WEIGHTS-2** Here are some generally accepted rules for the leg press: With the feet low on the platform you will have smaller knee angle, which in turn means more relative quad development. The down side of this is that you also will have much more more stress on the knee. With the feet high, you will have a larger knee angle which means more gluteal and ham emphasis, and also less stress on knees. However, sometimes my quads just don't get too much out of this form of training. With the feet low on the platform the knees also will be over the toes in the middle and lower portions of the lift, which places even more shear stree on the patella region. Many bodybuilders I know use this form of training, but suffer knee pain quite frequently. So how can one avoid some of this unnecessary stress and still emphasize the quads? How about if we place the feet in the middle of the platform and reduce the angle of the knee somewhat, but not so low that the knees ever go over the toes in any phase of the movement. Then when the weight is lifted, press from the toes (but still keep the heel flat on the platform) instead of the heel or flat of the foot . I have found that this really stresses my quads much more than the hams or glutes, but does not seem to add so much stress to the knee. Anyone else ever tried this? Any of you experts know whether or not this form places any less stress on the knees than when the feet are low on the platform? Over the last few months I have seem some pretty good growth in the quads with only a change in foot pressure. What do the experts think? PDill From jburnell@jps.net Mon Nov 17 21:34:18 PST 1997 On 13 Nov 1997 03:25:11 GMT, "Andrew Russo" wrote: >Hey...is it possible to get decent calves ( I didnt' say super calves) from >just doing squats and even what I would think hits the calves >harder...stiff leg deadlifts...? Doing calve raises requires too much >weight to get a good burn, or with light weight, too many reps, it's a >pain, and working one leg at a time takes too long, so I just hoped that my >stiff-leg deadlifts would do somewhat of a good calve work out, and also >maybey squats too. > Let me answer this. If you've got the genetics to build great calves this would probably work.........but so would walking to the bathroom. If, on the other hand you don't have the genetic to build great calves I feel safe to say this wont do anything. You'd be better off direct calf work. Jason- 600+ squats and deads- PUNY little calves! Jason W. Burnell - email me for info on the STRENGTH list Deepsquatter's World of Powerlifting http://home.jps.net/cburnell/deepsquatter.htm AAU Powerlifting http://home.jps.net/cburnell/aau.htm TUNA SHAKE http://home.jps.net/cburnell/shake.htm Raider Fan Till I Die - At this rate it won't be long! Subject: Re: ankle injury From: RWM2004@CUB.UCA.EDU Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 17:09:25 -0800 You need to strengthen calf muscles on both sides of the foot. Front and back. Anybody can tell you how to train the big muscles on the back of your calves, but I'll tell you how to work the frontal muscles. Before I started lifting I had ankle problems every so often, but I imagine many couch potatos do. The easiest way to work the frontal muscles is to do seated calf raises. But instead of raising your heels, you raise your toes up. I preferred to do them in an isometric manner. I would do them for a few reps and then hold them for as much as a minute. The pain will be very intense in the muscle for a minute or so afterwards. You do not use much weight in this manner, but you get a great workout. You probably need to wait a while before you start, but when you are able to start these will help. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Ron's Leg Press Circus From: Cecchini Ron Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:42:51 -0800 From: "C. Berg/Honeywell ATS" > Cap'n Freakly, I had the 3rd eye removed. I'm "normal" now... > I find my back curling off the pads at the extreme low when the sled bottoms > out. As a consequence I stop the movement slightly higher to avoid it Can you break 90 degrees w/o curling your back? It's not necessary to make your knees smack your chin. As long as you can go a couple of inches lower than 90 degrees (how's that for screwed up gym-speak...), I think you're doing enough. I'm not sure what tips I can give... Um, well, as I get ready to start the set, I make sure that I'm planted in the seat like I'm getting ready to hold back a truck w/ my legs. I mean, for one, I get myself more psyched and more "tight" than I do for most other exercises. I usually grip the handles on the leg-press so tight that my bicep tendons are sore the next day. I think "tight" as I lower the sled, and try to not lose that mind-muscle connection, which would cause the sled to come slamming down, snapping my legs off at the knees, and leaving me trapped like a newbie under a benchpress... (to understand what I mean by "tight", imagine what happens when you're doing heavy db presses and you don't concentrate and your shoulder sorta loosens and the weight flies over your head killing your spotter) I think I also lean *slightly* forward off the pad. Hmm, maybe that's not the best way to put it... I mean, I don't lie w/ my head and neck flat against the pad. My head is actually off the pad a couple of inches, but my upper back, of course, is still firmly planted. > (and I'm not known for a lack of flexibility). This is a topic for another mailing list, Cory... > I also find that a wider foot placement alleviates this to a small degree. Sure, you can get away w/ that to a certain degree, but go too wide and you start increasing the stress on your hams and inner-thighs, decreasing it from the quads. Your quads will still be the primary muscle, but not to the same degree as with a shoulder-width stance. imho. > Thoughts/suggestions? Sure - Live home for as long as you can after graduating, and pay off your student loans as quickly as possible. I would spare you the pain... > If only I was your height dude.... ...then you too wouldn't be able to ride the rollercoaster 'cause you didn't make the height requirement... Ron.Cecchini@GSC.GTE.Com Discipline - Desire - Determination - Dedication No Excuses. Shut Up And Train. Subject: Foot placement for leg presses From: Bill Kerr Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:05:17 -0800 This is one of the things that I like to change a lot. I like leg presses (I like anything that I get to load lots of 45 pounders on!) and moving your feet around is a good way to hit different parts of the muscle groups. If you put your feet real high it hits your hamstrings more; pointing your toes in or out, moving your feet closer together or further apart and moving your feet up and down all have a discernible effect on which parts of the leg muscles you feel the most. I will second the importance of keeping your lower back flat against the seat, too. It's easy (especially with big weights) to roll your lower back a little, but the next day you WILL regret it. Also be careful with the angle of the seat -- if it's too small (too "closed") you can't breathe properly and that's how you're feeding the muscles when you're lifting. Bill From rdunca*nospam*19@pop3.idt.net Tue Dec 9 22:12:36 PST 1997 Mc1798 wrote: If I take a wide stance and drop my knees deeper > than my chest, I almost always feel the strain in my lower back, either right > away or the next morning when I'm stiff as hell through the midsection. Any > words of wisdom on leg press form gratefully accepted. Keep a wide stance, as high on the platform as you can, go as deep as you can without letting your knees sneak inward, and for gods sake do NOT let your lower back leave the backrest. Don't lock out at the top, and dont bounce out of the bottom position. Dont hold your breath, instead blow out through pursed lips. Head up. Rob