From: eeipml@eei.ericsson.se ( Peter Mandal ) Subject: Re: 1/4 Squats Date: 5 Jan 1996 11:15:58 GMT Hi Dawson, Squatting is a strange game. For a long while I found myself stuck at the same weight and no matter how much I tried I couldn't get past this. Eventually I started doing 1/2 reps with more weight (ego boost?). And guess what! My full squat moved past this plateau I'd been having. I'm convinced that the real problem with my full squat was not with leg power, but rather with getting used to having a heavy weight on your shoulders. For each person it's different. I was stuck at 150kg for reps and 180 for one. 185 felt so much more heavy that I guess my subconcious was saying: 'Hey! Don't do this or you'll leave glute prints in the floor, and that'll be after they scrape you up....'. The 1/2 squats got me used to heavier weights so that it didn't come as such a shock when I had to lift (eg) 185 from the rack (1/2 squats are easier after all!). I haven't done 1/2 squats for over a year now and have managed to get my squat up to 210 for 6. (I'm still not great at getting ORM's). I say give-em a try for a mental boost and to get used to new weights that you'll eventually full squat. You won't know what benifit they'll be till you try yourself. (Buy always use a GOOD spotter) I used to include one set of 1/2's in place of full's after doing my heaviest full squat set. And that'd be it for squats. I'd do this for three weeks max and then back to full squats only. Full squat is the king of leg movements! Good luck now! Peter In article 0506951828170001@pm036-09.dialip.mich.net, tmg@umich.edu (Mr.Deadlift) writes: >In article <4ch2eg$8qd@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, >engler@amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu (Dawson R. Engler) wrote: > >> I'm going to include partial squats in my leg work. How is this >> typically done? Currently I'm doing a 5x5 squat program (5 sets, >> 5 reps). Should I substitute one set of partials for a set of >> full squats, for two set of full squats, or ? Are there any good >> articles/books that discuss partial/power-rack training in detail? > >Quarter squats are only a waste of time. Unless of course you feel that >you have to impress your fellow gym members by piling on the plates. > >I would much rather see a guy do parallel squats with 225# than do 1/4-1/2 >squats with 405# > >Peace, >MR. Deadlift >> >> Thanks, >> Dawson From: pdelgrosso@pbs.org (pHd) Subject: Re: Squat alternatives any good? Date: 12 Mar 1996 18:47:53 GMT :> >Squat's are not my favorite exercise. I really hate doing them, so :> >recently I've started doing leg curls and extensions for my thighs. :> >Now, I know that doing squat's is the best exercise for the legs :> >(specially for a beginner like me), but what I want to know is how :> >much less effective are doing leg curls and extensions? Has anyone :> >done leg curls and extensions instead of squat's and got great results :> >and gains? Despite the fact that the muscle-head majority in this group thinks that squats are the ONLY leg exercise, alternatives do exist. Yes, I will tread into that dangerous arena known as the "leg press machine." Truth be told, if you use one of the better designed machines (and this depends on your gym) and use proper form, you can get a good leg workout and also work the glutes. The better designed leg press machines will put less stress on the knees and lower back than squats. Since you are a beginner, I would suggest the leg press over squats even more. When you get to the point where you can do heavy weights on the machine, then you might want to change to squats as your primary leg exercise (keeping in mind you will not be able to squat as much weight as you can press on a leg press). I am not suggesting you shouldn't do squats at all (as long as squats are not giving you lower back problems), but mixing up exercises is a good thing for your body, especially if you are getting bored with squats and especially if you are a beginner. For example, do a heavy set on the leg press machine, then do squats at a lighter weight for the extended set. Leg curls and leg extensions are good complements to squats and/or the leg press, but I wouldn't suggest substituting them for either exercise. Also, if your gym has separate adductor and abductor machines (NOT the all-in-one type), you should work these machines into your routine, too. One is great for the ass and the other is great for the inner thigh. Hope this helps. From: Mike Armstrong Subject: Re: Squatting vs. Leg Press Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 22:49:33 -0800 M.J.Ratcliffe@bris.ac.uk wrote: > > I cannot see that there is a great > deal of difference between (squat and leg press) > then there must be a major mechanical reason for this. I'm > intrigued as to why LPs cannot be considered an alternative, as I'm > convinced they're safer back-wise. > > Max. Max, LP's may be a bit safer but are most assuredly not the same exercise. Think about the angle of your leg to your body in the two. In LP's you just about touch your knees to your chest. You can do this because you are not supporting the weight with your back. If you squated like this, you would not get up, period, at least not with any amount of weight, and if you did, you'd get a sore lower back pretty quick. Ask any competitive powerlifter, this position for a squat emphasises the lower back, and partly the hips, for doing the lifting out of the bottom position. The squat is supposed to be a leg lift. Properly done your back is as straight up as possible, with the hams and glutes, and to some degree the quads, doing the work. Yes I do like the LP. But as assistance to a lift like deadlift, where the start position is lower, and more power is needed from the hip flexors. And the position is much closer to that of a leg press. Mike Armstrong President, Canadian Powerlifting Union Member, IPF Media Committee - Internet, IPF Referee armstcpu@oanet.com http://www.tgx.com/cpu/cpu.htm From: Calvin Hass Subject: Re: Calf Raises - To lock or not to lock Date: 18 Jun 1996 18:43:25 GMT tim@mvtv.com (Tim Krull) wrote: >Lately I've seen more and more people at the gym I work out at NOT locking >their knees when they do calf raises. I have tried this myself and have had >varied results, a different burn, not quite the stretch I like. Did I miss a >study or something? Is it the overall opinion that when doing calf raises, >locking your knees is potentially harmful, particularly with heavy weight? >Because they do feel a bit stressed when locked. If they do the calf raises unlocked, then they have the option of cheating with their quads for a little extra. If they remain totally locked, I would figure your knees should be quite safe, considering: a) they remain locked, but there is no concern about bouncing out of the lock then back in (like on the leg press) b) there aren't significant shearing forces causing problems for the locked joint, as is the case with lateral arm raises However, if your knees are somehow able to hyperextend to any degree, then you probably should not lock out. Other than that, I can't see why it would be unsafe, not to mention a way to ensure you don't cheat the weight up. Now, on a slightly related note: It has been suggested that calf development responds particularly well to heavy negatives. The method given was to use both calves to raise the heavy weight (in a standing calf raise), then to use a single leg to lower the weight. However, before I begin trying this, can anyone see a problem with causing a shearing or unbalanced force on your hips or lower back in supporting a very heavy weight on one leg? Cal. Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 23:38:11 -0500 From: Lyle McDonald Subject: Re: front squats >From: "by way of Michael Leary " > >Subject: Front Squats > >------------------------------------------- > >I've added front squats to my training recently as my >3rd leg exercise (the others being powerlifting squats >and stiff-leg deads). My question is about hand >positioning. If I try to hold the bar as I see the Olympic >lifters on TV do it (elbows up, bar in fingers, palms up) >it hurts my wrists. What I've come up with is crossing >my arms across my chest, raising my elbows up, and >having my thumbs in the gap between the pecs and >frontal delts (is this clear?) The bar rests on my thumbs >and front delts. This is workable, but my delts get >tired, and I can see my thumbs getting crushed as the >weight gets heavier. > >Anyone out there have an alternative holding position >that they'd like to share? Try crossing your arms over the bar so that your finger tips rest on the delts of the opposite hand (i.e. right hand on left delt and vice versa). Will make it easier to keep the bar under control. As far as delt fatigue, very little can be done other than to just accept it. To keep the bar in the proper position, you have to 'rack-it' on the front deltoids. They will fatigue. You might work some front raises (generally a worthless exercise but in this case) or even some isometric holds (perhaps plate holds with arms straight in front to get some grip work in as well) for the front delts. Hope this helps, Lyle McDonald, CSCS From: rmann@escape.ca (Bob Mann) Subject: Re: Calf improvements!! Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 04:49:10 GMT galifter wrote: >David Doubravsky wrote: >> >> Ok.. I work out at home. I can do the standing easily, as well as one >> legged calf raises on the stairs. I also do donkey calf raises with my >> partner. Do the donkey raises work like the seated claf raises? I tried >> putting a bar on my quads, but it didn't work too well. What else can I do >> at home without a seated calf machine? >> >> > By ignoring calf raises with your legs straight you are neglecting one of the >> > two muscles which make up the calf. >> > Seated calf raises work the soleus while straight leg raises work the >> > gastrocnemius. >> > If your back hurts too much to do them standing you can do donkey calf >> raises or >> > do them in a leg press machine. >That's interesting. Why are you working different muscles when you are >standing versus sitting? Isn't the movement the same? Heal up and heal >down? If you are standing, are you then using upper leg and that's why a >different muscle kicks in? >babs I'll try to answer both questions here. Donkey raises work the same way as standing raises since the knee is straight. The reason for the different muscle feeling the stress is related to the angle of the knee and it's relationship to the origin and insertion of the muscle. To test this do a calf stretch. The straighter the knee joint the higher you feel the stretch. As you bend your knee you feel the stretch lower in the calf and down into the achilles tendon. Another test. Sitting down in a chair with your feet flat on the floor raise your heel and flex your calf. Feel the bottom and middle of the muscle, it should be hard. Now feel the top and outside of the muscle, it is most likely still pliant. Now stand up and flex your calf with your leg straight. When you feel the muscle you should notice the reverse. In reality the calf is two separate muscleswhich have slightly different but overlapping functions. As your knee bends or straightens one muscle gradually takes over from the other. For this reason if yopu don't perform both types of calf raises you are stressing only one of these muscles. Bob Mann Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 From: kerr@marlin.nosc.mil (Bill Kerr) Subject: Massive Shins! The next featured bodypart for the Mr. O -- shins! OK, OK, it's a real question. I know two ways to work the front of the lower leg specifically. One is to buy an expensive little gadget with some pads and a plate pin, you sit down, stick your legs out, put your feet in said gadget (with plates on the pin) and "curl" your feet up toward your shins. The other way to do the same thing is to hold a dumbbell between your feet and do the same curling motion. Since your gym already has dumbbells, this is much cheaper. It's not quite as effective since you have to hold the dumbbell with your feet. Calf and toe raises will work the shins a bit as well, but the move described above, with dumbbells, hurts pretty fast. ------------------------------- From performance@icdc.com Sun Dec 8 19:52:35 PST 1996 Article: 85572 of misc.fitness.weights From: Jeff Johnson Subject: Re: SOUATS OR LEG PRESSES?!?! Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 16:09:21 -0500 George Nesrallah wrote: > > I have always found that when I do leg presses, it actually hurts my back > more than when I do squats. Does anybody else get this, and is squatting > actually safer than leg pressing for the lower back? I have taked with > some people about this, and some find the same thing, while other people > don't. Thanks. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > George Nesrallah > Carleton University > > Email address: gnesrall@chat.carleton.ca > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Like many exercises, it all comes down to proper execution of the movement. If you allow your legs to come back too far during the eccentric (negative) portion of the movement, such that your hips rise, you place considerable stress on the lower back. Only bring your knee joint to 90 degrees while lowering the weight and don't lock out the knee when extending. The vertical leg press is also more likely to cause back stress than the incline variety. Jeff Johnson, MS Performance Fitness & Nutrition From: rmann@escape.ca (Bob Mann) Subject: Re: Calf improvements!! galifter wrote: >David Doubravsky wrote: >> >> Ok.. I work out at home. I can do the standing easily, as well as one >> legged calf raises on the stairs. I also do donkey calf raises with my >> partner. Do the donkey raises work like the seated claf raises? I tried >> putting a bar on my quads, but it didn't work too well. What else can I do >> at home without a seated calf machine? >> >> > By ignoring calf raises with your legs straight you are neglecting one of the >> > two muscles which make up the calf. >> > Seated calf raises work the soleus while straight leg raises work the >> > gastrocnemius. >> > If your back hurts too much to do them standing you can do donkey calf >> raises or >> > do them in a leg press machine. >That's interesting. Why are you working different muscles when you are >standing versus sitting? Isn't the movement the same? Heal up and heal >down? If you are standing, are you then using upper leg and that's why a >different muscle kicks in? >babs I'll try to answer both questions here. Donkey raises work the same way as standing raises since the knee is straight. The reason for the different muscle feeling the stress is related to the angle of the knee and it's relationship to the origin and insertion of the muscle. To test this do a calf stretch. The straighter the knee joint the higher you feel the stretch. As you bend your knee you feel the stretch lower in the calf and down into the achilles tendon. Another test. Sitting down in a chair with your feet flat on the floor raise your heel and flex your calf. Feel the bottom and middle of the muscle, it should be hard. Now feel the top and outside of the muscle, it is most likely still pliant. Now stand up and flex your calf with your leg straight. When you feel the muscle you should notice the reverse. In reality the calf is two separate muscleswhich have slightly different but overlapping functions. As your knee bends or straightens one muscle gradually takes over from the other. For this reason if yopu don't perform both types of calf raises you are stressing only one of these muscles. Bob Mann