PROS AND CONS: 1996 IPA NATIONALS, WASHINGTON D.C. A Report by Phil Andrews and a Rebuttal by Bob Edwards. Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 From: Phil Subject: IPA (powerlifting) Nationals I just got back from the IPA Nationals in DC this weekend (no I don't know what IPA stands for, and I don't care whatsoever). I normally only lift in or attend the ADFPA (drug-free) meets, but several guys from my gym (Al Calfo at 275lbs, Dan Kovacs at 308, Vic Sporio and Jamie Harris at super) were lifting and I went to watch and help my training partner Vic. Vic normally lifts in the ADFPA also, but there hasn't been an ADFPA meet withing 250 miles of Pittsburgh since Al Siegel was kicked out. The IPA was in the news lately for rewriting the Squat depth rule (Anthony Clark now lifts in the IPA), then falling back after PLUSA refused to recognize their numbers for ranking purposes (more on this later). I got there after the lighter classes and women and just after the "Bench Press Challenge". The challenge was a bit of a bust; Ziggy (Jamie Harris) was the only one to complete a lift. He opened at 720, got that, went to 770, missed it and then blew his shirt out. Anthony Clark missed all 3 attempts at 785. Some other guy missed 600 three times. Clark did 720 easily in warmups. He's not the healthiest looking individual at the moment. Ziggy got the $1,000 prize (I'll believe it when the cheque clears). I was mostly interested in the heavier classes on Sun afternoon. They ran 275 on up together. I don't know why they bothered to rewrite their squat rules; it's impossible that there's anything in writing, anywhere, that would justify their judging decisions. After the first few squats, I figured that completing the lift was the sole criterion for white lights, but then one guy came up 2/3 of the way, stumbled backwards, and had the spotters take the weight. He received 2 white lights and credit for the lift. Vic's squats were the only ones I would have passed and most were at least 6 inches high. Steve Brodsky, who was an excellent super about 100 lbs of belly ago, squatted in the 800's, Vic got 750 and Dan, Al, and a third guy I didn't know, each made a 900 lb squat. Dan's was at least in the neighbourhood. I think I could have improved my official squat PR by 100-150 lbs had I lifted here, but then I'm a "back" lifter for whom the last few inches are most difficult. In the Bench, Dan got a very nice 650 lbs that was legitimate (some others were either not locked out, or not paused), missing 675 on a 4th. Al got 580. All manner of shirts were in evidence, but surprisingly the best benchers (Dan and Ziggy) went with simple, single thickness denims. The meet director, Mark Chaillet, got a very nice 830 lb deadlift for the highest of the meet, Dan made a good 800 for a 2350 total, missing 850 for 2400. Vic made 745 to total 1900 lbs and pass my recent 733 effort. Al got about 660. Many of the passed deadlifts were not locked out. There were a number of differences from an ADFPA or USPF meet, not necessarily bad. A special squat bar, longer, thicker, and weighing 70 lbs with holes in the sleeves to allow pin-locked collars was used. They used York pound plates. Elbow wraps were allowed on squats and deadlifts (I would vote for that). Naturally a monolift was used for squats. In the deadlifts, many wore shin guards, some sprayed their thighs with water instead of using talc. Very loud music was played. Seven thousand dollars in cash prizes were announced. In summary, they whole thing was very much like the kind of lifting you see in a gym that makes you think that that's why we have competitions and judges; so that when someone says they have lifted x, it actually means something. It is absolutely absurd to have ranking lists in PLUSA that list results from this sort of meet together with meets like the WDFPF worlds I was at a couple of months ago. Dan's 2350 total was easily the best total, with a perfectly good bench and deadlift (allowing for the use of a bench shirt) and a squat that was better than most. -Phil Andrews ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 From: "Bob Edwards" Subject: Re: IPA (powerlifting) Nationals this is in response to the comments that phil andrews made about the ipa nationals.he is full of chalk dust.i lifted in that meet as a 54 year old master lifter in the superheavy class.this was a great meet.it was well organized and the judging was very fair.this was a meet for the lifter and it was a lot of fun for all involved.i have been a competitive lifter for over 20 years and have lifted in many states and in well over 100 meets.i have seen the drug abuse get to the point where it is ridiculous.these guys use all types of drugs and wear all this supportive equipment to lift heavy weights. whatever happened to real powerlifting?i used to go to meets to have a good time.i had good friends like the late ed riley and we would spend staurday talking about powerlifting,eating a hoagie and enjoying some good old fashioed fellowship.the sport has become colder,people seem to look at powerlifting like a job and most dont seem to enjoy it like we did in the old days.lets face it,powerlifting is a hobby.it is not meant to be a livehood.some people do fine financially,but to most of us it is something we enjoy doing as a hobby.i know a lot of things are wrong with powerlifting but the sport endures in spite of us.i think it is good to have all the federations because there is something for everyboby. the ipa is great for lifters like me who are natural;we can lift as amateurs.the pro division is for drug enhanced lifters.people like mark chaillet are the future of the sport.they see where there is a need for changes and they make them.powerlifting is bigger than any of us.many high school and colleges have teams and the sport is conducted in a clean,have fun atmosphere.my 15 year old son is interested in the sport and i would like for him to enjoy it as i have;as a clean,fun sport. in summary,i am not condemning or judging the big guns who use performance enhancing drugs.that is their decision,right or wrong.i am just glad there ia a federation like the ipa where lifters like myself can compete with some assurance that their competitors are drug free also.powerlifting is a great sport for building character and self discipline because it is a demanding sport and requires these characteristics to be successful.my lifting career is almost over due to health reasons,but i have many wonderful memories of the sport and the people that i met throught my years of competition.i just hope the sport endures so many other people can enjoy it as i have.thanks for the opportunity to express my feeling on the worlds greatest sport. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 96 From: Mark Lane Subject: Re: IPA (powerlifting) Nationals There is a general perception within the powerlifting fraternity here within the UK that some of the minor powerlifting associations in the US (and weights lifted within them) are a joke! Sorry to be so blunt. Having read both postings, my opinion has not changed. If you read PL USA this month, Ed Coan and Kirk Karwoski don't seem to be of dissimilar opinions. (I assume even non PL-ers will know who these people are.) Powerlifting as a sport has many problems; drugs, rule consistency (equipment and lifts) and far too many different associations (perhaps if there were less associations some of these problems would disappear). >it is good to have all the federations because there is something for >everyboby. I completely disagree. I wonder how many national PL champions there are in the US at a particular bodyweight? This does not enhance the image of powerlifting at all. I can understand why there is a need for some separate associations. Some lifters will want to lift naturally and some will want to lift "untested". To be fair, from reading Bob's posting it sounds like the IPA have tried to address this issue by having separate categories within the one association. But there is still the major problem with rules regarding the lifts and equipment. The two international associations that I am most familiar with are the IPF and the WDFPF. Both these associations and their affiliates have very strict and consistent rules regarding lift performance and the equipment that can be used. Without these, as the original poster has stated, lift A cannot be compared with lift B. If a new association (I assume the IPA is new) wants to be a major player in the sport of powerlifting they should adopt similar rules as used by the IPF or the WDFPF. (The rules regarding equipment and lift performance are basically the same in the IPF and the WDFPF, except the WDFPF do not allow the use of bench shirt). >>All manner of shirts were in evidence >.i have seen the drug abuse get to the point where it is >ridiculous.these guys use all types of drugs and wear all this >supportive equipment to lift heavy weights.whatever happened to real >powerlifting? Bob, I wholeheartedly agree, but reading the original posting, it doesn't sound like the IPA has gone back to "real powerlifting" either as you put it. Now if the IPA were to tighten up the rules, I would be the first to take them seriously. >powerlifting is a great sport for building character and self >discipline because it is a demanding sport and requires these >characteristics to be successful. Agreed. Let us assume the original poster's assessment is correct. Is it more character building to wear lots of performance enhancing equipment and to reduce the standard expected regarding lift performance? Or it more character building to wear the minimal equipment (lets get back to 'raw' lifting) and to perform the lifts to the strictest standards? >>There were a number of differences from an ADFPA or USPF meet, not >>necessarily bad. A special squat bar, longer, thicker, and weighing >>70 lbs with holes in the sleeves to allow pin-locked collars was >>used. Now to show I'm not completely biased. I'll disagree with the original poster. Maybe a special squat bar would not be required if there was less equipment used and the squats were deeper? >thanks for the opportunity to express my feeling on the >worlds greatest sport. Likewise. Apologies for being so negative, but powerlifting is a great sport and is something that I passionately care about too. Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 From: Phil Subject: Re: IPA (powerlifting) Nationals >From: "Bob Edwards" > >this is in response to the comments that phil andrews made about the ipa >nationals.he is full of chalk dust. Actually, I like that imagery; it's a lot better than some of the things I've been told I'm full of ! Controversy is good, and it would be a copout to say that I didn't mean to put anyone down, it's a personal decision etc., so I won't. The judging stank. It might have been fair to the competitors at the meet, since it was pretty much the same for everyone (I can only think of about 6 completed lifts that were turned down, out of hundreds), but what about lifters who weren't there, who will now think (erroneously) that such and such can squat 100 pounds more than them ? >i lifted in that meet as a 54 year old >master lifter in the superheavy class.this was a great meet.it was well >organized and the judging was very fair.this was a meet for the lifter and it >was a lot of fun for all involved. I think most organisations realize that at small, local meets, the rules are going to be (somewhat) relaxed and people will have fun. But this was the IPA United States National Championships ! Several lifters went over 2,000 lb totals ! If lifters see this behavior at a National meet, what will happen at a local meet ? will we hear of somebody squatting 1,200 lbs using umpteen suits, fake weights and his immediate family flipping the lights ? Lifters with class do their big weights at meets where the judging is known to be strict; where will an IPA lifter find that ? But you have my respect for competing; anyone who competes has more right to say something than anyone who doesn't. >i have been a competitive lifter for over >20 years and have lifted in many states and in well over 100 meets.i have >seen the drug abuse get to the point where it is ridiculous.these guys use >all types of drugs and wear all this supportive equipment to lift heavy >weights.whatever happened to real powerlifting?i used to go to meets to have >a good time.i had good friends like the late ed riley and we would spend >staurday talking about powerlifting,eating a hoagie and enjoying some good >old fashioed fellowship. I knew Ed Riley when I lived in N.J. about 15 years ago. He was a real character. I don't know how legitimate his BP style was (he used to have the weight placed on his chest, and would then press it 3/4 way up and immediately dump it on the racks, apparently because of elbow problems) but I remember him getting about 530 that way. He had more trophys than anyone else I ever knew. >the sport has become colder,people seem to look at >powerlifting like a job and most dont seem to enjoy it like we did in the old >days.lets face it,powerlifting is a hobby.it is not meant to be a >livehood.some people do fine financially,but to most of us it is something we >enjoy doing as a hobby.i know a lot of things are wrong with powerlifting but >the sport endures in spite of us.i think it is good to have all the >federations because there is something for everyboby.the ipa is great for >lifters like me who are natural;we can lift as amateurs.the pro division is >for drug enhanced lifters.people like mark chaillet are the future of the >sport.they see where there is a need for changes and they make >them.powerlifting is bigger than any of us.many high school and colleges have >teams and the sport is conducted in a clean,have fun atmosphere.my 15 year >old son is interested in the sport and i would like for him to enjoy it as i >have;as a clean,fun sport.in summary,i am not condemning or judging the big >guns who use performance enhancing drugs.that is their decision,right or >wrong.i am just glad there ia a federation like the ipa where lifters like >myself can compete with some assurance that their competitors are drug free I don't really follow that; the IPA is pretty much identified with the big lifters (Clark, etc.) that no-one professes are drug-free, and the professional division doesn't test. If they suddenly say they have a drug-free division, why should that mean anything other than P.R.? Were there any drug tests ? I didn't see any. And they sure don't do out of competition testing. Also, I don't like their attitude that if you don't take drugs, you're not in the top calibre. (Their T-shirts said: "The World's Strongest Lifters Lift in the IPA".) Their squat poundages don't mean anything, and even with the judges' help their deadlifts weren't that much better, if any, than good drug free lifters. The top 242 lb deadlift was only 705 lbs. Drugs definitely get you something, but not nearly as much as the users think. -Phil Andrews ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 From: "Bob Edwards" Subject: Re: IPA (powerlifting) Nationals i respect mr andrews opinion but i think he and i are in different worlds.he apparently is a professional powerlifter while i am an average novice lifter who enjoys the sport as a hobby.his philosophy is totally different than mine.he thinks a 710 deadlift in the 242 class is not that much weight.to me it is more than i could ever hope to lift naturally.anyone who lifts that kind of weight naturally must have a special brand of wheaties.it is easy to critize the ipa judging but i have a lot more respect for soneone who squats to parallel naturally than i do for someone on steroids,hgh and insulin who squats a 1000 lbs to the floor. it is all so fake and such a farce.take the big boys off the drugs and lets see what happens.to peolpe like me, powerlifting is a fun sport like the old days when strong men met to test their mettle naturally and see some of the friends they have made over the years.there is too much controversy in the sport.i could care less about how much weight drug enhanced guys can lift;i am only interested in what i can lift.i lift for myself and nobody else.my goal is to do better at each meet and to lift clean.you can spend a fortune on super suits,super shirts and super jocks but what does it mean? this is what escapes me.to me a strong man is someone who can walk into the gym at any time night or day and lift the same weight.who wants to be a super man one day and a 98 pound weakling the next day? as far as i am concerned,the sport is too full of jealousy and hypocrisy.the ipa has the best idea so far;have a division for the amateur or natural lifters and one for the big guns who will do anything to lift more weight.do your own thing and dont criticize the average guy who goes to meets to just have a good time.i am very glad to be able to express my opinion after all these years.this has been stuck in my craw for years.many times i have gone to meets and have known that if my opponents and i were lifting on a natural basis,my chances of winning would be much greater.thank goodness for people like mark chaillet who is giving the average joe a chance to compete against people who are probably natural too. performance enhancing drugs are a fact of life and are here to stay.there is a telling what the future holds;maybe a 3000 squat as new drugs are invented.but there will always be a certain percentage of lifters who will lift naturally because they care about their health and cant afford the drugs.personally,i dont have the money to buy all the drugs and special equipment that you need to be competitive on the national and world class level.that is for rich people who dont care about their health.so in short,let the natural lifter lift in peace and enjoy his workouts and competition.let the other guys lift with chemical cocktails and leave them in peace too.it takes all kinds to make a world or a sport like powerlifting. ------------------------------