Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:26:06 -0500 (CDT) From: lylemcd@onr.com (Lyle McDonald) Subject: Strength_List: sleep >Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:27:37 -0400 >From: Wade Hanna >Subject: Re: Strength_List: INSOMNIA!!!!! -Reply > >This is true. I just don't think this is the case though. I have had >this on and off for years and it is not always tied to training. It >has happened to me when I have had some extended rests too. I >could understand why it may be overtraining (I am using a tough >high volume training regimen), BUT I am not exhibiting any other >symtons. My weight is still gaining and I am not experiencing any >loss of training weight. I have some residual aches that I always >get when I start a new program. > >I am really curious to know if there is any correlation to the >ahtlete=insomnia theory that I read about in Colgan's book? If >there is then what is it and how do you combat it? since it doesn't seem like it's your training that is causing the insomnia (tho late night workouts invariably get me worked up), consider some other possible factors. 1. Caffeine late at night, always keeps me up 2. A big protein meal can raise levels of stimulatory neurotransmitters (because tyrosine is converted eventually into adrenaline and noradrenaline) 3. It's just one of those things. I find that sometimes I just can't fall asleep, no matter what. It's almost like I forgot how. I just lay in bed and think "Ok, I know how to fall asleep, I've done it before, so why can't I do it now." Of course, sitting there thinking about how to fall asleep invariably keeps me up. Some things to try: 1. Small carb meal (i.e. the old standby of warm milk). A small insulin response tends to push amino acids out of the bloodstream except for tryptophan. This can help to push serotonin synthesis (and ultimatley melatonin synthesis), probably part of why some people get really sleepy after a big carb meal. Foods high in tryptophan might also be useful but I don't know what they are off the top of my head. 2. Melatonin supplements: I used to keep these around for the times I couldn't fall asleep and they did seem to help. Note that more is not better. I foud that for myself, 3 mg will put me to sleep but I'll be a zombie the next day. 0.5-1 mg works just about right for me, puts me to sleep without making me too groggy the next day. 3. Valerian supplements: a friend of mine used these while she was dieting for a bodybuilding contest, since people tend to have trouble falling asleep sometimes when bodyfat gets too low. 4. Get a really boring biochemistry book (or whatever subject you find most mind numbing) and read that at bedtime. Should put your right out. Lyle McDonald, CSCS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:26:41 -0400 From: billf Subject: Strength_List: Re: INSOMNIA!!!!! Greetings Wade; Are you taking Creatine? I know whenever I take Creatine too late at night, I'm wide awake most of the night. It drives me nuts, and I had to alter my creatine schedule because of it. Just a thought, Bill http://www.trenton.edu/~mspencer/powerpage.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:45:43 -0400 From: Wade Hanna Subject: Strength_List: sleep -Reply Lyle, thanks a ton! You mentioned some things there that are *probably* some factors, if not causes. I work out between 6-8 and then try to sleep by 9:30-10. I have a high protein drink roughly 30-60 mins. prior to bed time that has a pretty good dose of Tyrosine in it. I have been taking Glutamine before bed too...I may stop this if BCAA's are a contributor (excepting Tryptophan). The workout itself is pretty intense and even though I am whipped after I am pretty charged up. A high Fructose/Glucose drink right after WO tends to skyrocket depleted energy levels. Maybe I need to re-think some of my dietary practices at night to eliminate these things. What are Melatonin supplements? I have never heard of this? Thanks again.......Good liftin' - -wade Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:58:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Ironman9@webtv.net Subject: Strength_List: Re: Insomnia Wade try some Melatonin, works wonders for me, you can get it at your local health food store. Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:20:47 -0700 From: Mister Sunshine Subject: Re: Strength_List: INSOMNIA!!!!! I've had plenty of sleep problems, both pre and post accident. I'd often do something similar to what you describe - go to bed at a decent, if not early time only to wake up up a couple hours later and be unable to get back to sleep for many more hours. Something I've found since being back in 'school' is that the mental challenge helps to make me very tired and sleep a lot better. I have also tried 5-HTP and found that seemed to help make me drowsy. That stuff is readily available in health food/supplement stores. - -- Steve Townsley mrsunshine@fishnet.net http://www.fishnet.net/~mrsunshine/healthzone.html From: lylemcd@onr.com (Lyle McDonald) Subject: Strength_List: insomnia >Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:26:41 -0400 >From: billf >Subject: Strength_List: Re: INSOMNIA!!!!! > >Greetings Wade; > >Are you taking Creatine? I know whenever I take Creatine too late at >night, I'm wide awake most of the night. It drives me nuts, and I had >to alter my creatine schedule because of it. How weird, this topic just came up on the HIT digest. One person commented that his insomnia from creatine went away when he increased his water intake, leading him to conclude that it was the dehydration causing the problem. >Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:45:43 -0400 >From: Wade Hanna >Subject: Strength_List: sleep -Reply > > What are Melatonin supplements? I have never heard of this? Melatonin is a hormonal supplement (like DHEA or andro). In the body melatonin is thought to partially regulate our sleep/wake cycles and (if I recall) is itself regulated by light levels (it's been a while since I've read up on melatonin so I won't swear by this). There are also some age related changes in melatonin levels in that older individuals tend to release less. I've always sort of wondered if this is why my grandmother seems to only sleep like 4-6 hours per night. Anyway, melatonin can be taken to induce sleep and has been used to help with jet lag (by resetting normal sleep/waking rhythms). I have used it in the past and it does help. However, one major caveat, if you decide to try it, start with a lower dose rather than higher. The first time I ever took it, I used 3 mg. While it put me to sleep, I was a total zombie the next morning, and could not wake up (it's kind of the same feeling as when you get too much sleep, or take a short nap during hte day, you're just exhausted all day long). I do much better with 0.5-1 mg. I would guess this is a function of age (I'm 28 now) since levels tend to drop as we get older. that is, I would expect that older individuals might need higher doses than younger individuals. Lyle McDonald, CSCS