From lparker@uniserve.com Fri Jan 9 22:22:49 PST 1998 PTHFNDR@worldnet.att.net wrote: >Both my partner and I are interested in obtaining any new excercises >that target the rear deltoids. We are looking for routines other than >the use of the Pec Deck machine and the bent over lateral raises. One variation is to use the cable set. Attach a handgrip to the upper pulley, stand with one shoulder toward the cable and grasp the grip with your opposite hand, then draw your (straight) arm across until it is fully extended on the side away from the cable set. When I say "straight" arm - I don't mean ramrod straight. I like to keep the elbow slightly flexed so I don't lock out the joint. On the other hand, you don't want to draw across with a bent arm before straightening it - that will tend to work the triceps. Scott http://users.uniserve.com/~lparker/ (short stories & puzzles) From cougar@elevator-bbs.com Fri Jan 9 22:23:19 PST 1998 PTHFNDR@worldnet.att.net wrote: >Both my partner and I are interested in obtaining any new excercises >that target the rear deltoids. We are looking for routines other than >the use of the Pec Deck machine and the bent over lateral raises. >Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Bent row involves the rear delts as well as lats, more so if you don't bend over as far -- just like front delts and incline bench. IMHO bent row should not involve the biceps; your forearms should just hang >from the elbows as you pull the bar to your chest, and you should use a weight much too heavy to curl. If your lower back can't take it with a barbell then use a dumbbell and do one side at a time bracing yourself with the other hand on a bench, but don't let your body twist at all. Cougar Allen :{) cougar@elevator-bbs.com From mark.deayton@tassie.net.au Sat Feb 21 07:47:26 PST 1998 Tyler Shaw wrote: > > Can Behind the neck presses damage the shoulders. Someone said that > these could blow out the shoulders. Depends on your form and your own muscular skeletal make up. Some people can cope fine pressing a Mack truck behind the neck. In other people, it fucks up their rotator cuff real quick. If I were you I would take it easy with light weight and see how comfortable this movement feels for you before lumping on the big stuff. You could always stick with front presses if in doubt. From mcurfma#@nswc.navy.mil Sat Feb 21 07:47:49 PST 1998 In article <34EC6DEE.41C6@rhea.umd.edu>, "Jeffrey J. Potoff" wrote: >Mark Deayton wrote: >> >> Tyler Shaw wrote: >> > >> > Can Behind the neck presses damage the shoulders. Someone said that >> > these could blow out the shoulders. >> >> Depends on your form and your own muscular skeletal make up. Some >> people can cope fine pressing a Mack truck behind the neck. In other >> people, it ##### up their rotator cuff real quick. If I were you I >> would take it easy with light weight and see how comfortable this >> movement feels for you before lumping on the big stuff. You could >> always stick with front presses if in doubt. > >I used to do behind the neck presses, but gave them up once >I realized I wasn't getting any benefit beyond what I would >see by doing just military press. I would only do behind >the neck presses if you like getting injured. > >Jeff These are valid points. However, I would STRONGLY recommend using dumbbells rather than any type of barbell military press. I personally made noticeably better progress when I switched to dumbbell presses. They take a lot of stress off of your shoulders and your neck and give you a freer range of motion. I'm no kinesiologist, but I believe that they would also affect more stabilizer-type muscles (may even hit the traps some). Some people also like the variation known as the Arnold press. MarkBC x-no-archive:yes From bsmith@cyberramp.net Sat Feb 21 07:48:19 PST 1998 On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 05:17:39 GMT, ROBO and Sonia (ROBO and Sonia) wrote: >fstanbach@aol.com (FStanbach) said: > >>trilenol wrote: >>>Can Behind the neck presses damage the shoulders. Someone said that >>>these could blow out the shoulders. >> >>Paul Chek said not do them. I would agree. > >I would doubly agree. Dumbbell presses and front military presses are just as >effective and far less dangerous. No reason to do BTN press when suitable >alternatives exist > I dont think i can agree here ROBO.... I never was able to get muck shoulder development at all and avoided doing BTN Press because ..eek! it was uncomfortable and oooh i wasnt good at it....i think thats why alot of people dont do it... I dont think its any less risky than using dumbells pressesor front presses and neither of those can do nearly as much for overloading the rear delts ....dumbell flys are great for the various muscles of the delts but you just cant get the overload for mass gains that you can with good heavy BTN presses....QED there really isnt a suitable alternative Brad D/FW Assault Crew From sandman3@popd.ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 21 07:48:56 PST 1998 Tyler Shaw wrote: > > Can Behind the neck presses damage the shoulders. Someone said that > these could blow out the shoulders. Any exercise can be dangerous if you use shitty form or don't properly warm up. Right now I'm doing seated behind the neck presses for sets of 6 with 225lbs and I haven't had a problem. I do a good ten minute warm up first and really get loosened up. Knock on wood I have never had an injury or persistent soreness but everyone is different. Try some with a light weight and get a feel for it. For me BTNP's are the best mass builder but again, everyone is different. TheSandman From jppronovost@v-wave.com Sat Feb 21 07:49:32 PST 1998 --------------E52A0B0177676451985C16E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tyler Shaw wrote: > Can Behind the neck presses damage the shoulders. Someone said that > these could blow out the shoulders. NJP ANSWERS; I rarely see anybody (who knows what they're doing)- do this exercise anymore. It places tremendous strain on the rotator cuff, and as I have previously suffered a third degree separation and dislocation of the shoulder, stay very aware of this. Frank Zane on of the most scientific bodybuilders of all time, suffered his only career injury as a result of this exercise. As well, as far as I know, it offers no benefits over the military press, and is, in many ways, inferior. Rotating the shoulders that far back puts the full workload on the front delts (behind-the-neck does in no way imply rear delts!!! - as I've known people to assume), which most people have plenty of - mostly from compound chest exercises (mostly done improperly). Military press still is primarily a front delt exercise, but still involves far more side delt than the behind-the-neck, as well as upper-pecs. So in the interest of safety, and if you need more side-delt and upper-pec development (which almost all of us can use), I'd stick to Military press for a primary shoulder exercise. ps. keeping the Weider confusion principal in mind, doing behind-the-neck occasionally with very light weight, good warm-up, and slow reps with impeccable form probably couldn't hurt - although I'll still never touch 'em Subject: Re: Exercises that don't aggravate shoulder From: PAGen@massey.ac.nz Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:32:26 -0800 Loren Chiu wrote: >A description of the shoulder injury would be helpful, but here are some >suggestions that most people should follow for longterm shoulder health. > >Don't do: >Behind the Neck Presses If you must, simply bring the bar to the level of the ears only. Going lower causes a radical shift of your scapula which may increase your chances of injury. Sort of like making the foundations wobble. >Behind the Neck Pulldowns/Ups (These three exercises have absolutely no > functional capabilities. Who ever has to perform a movement like this in > normal life). I've been preaching this downunder for almost 10 years. Its finally becoming gospel. An advanced and limiting exercise only. Its only still around because its easy to teach and most trainers don't really think about what they are doing. >Upright Rows >Bench Presses, Incline Bench Presses (and Dumbell variations) that allow the > humerus to travel below the point it is parallel to the floor. You can reduce shoulder problems with full benches by drawing your shoulders together and down which lifts the chest up a little. Works most times. >Lateral Raises where the elbow is raised higher than the shoulder (bursitis) >Lateral Raises with a medial rotation of the humerus A minor exercise that is overused and over rated. If you must lean forward slightly, only bend your arms slightly and keep your hands FLAT. None of this "pouring" stuff. Brett Guthrie Comparative Physiology and Anatomy Section Institute of Veterinary, Animals and Biomedical Sciences Massey University Palmerston North, New Zealand Subject: Re: Behind the neck press From: Lorne Goldenberg Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:27:27 -0800 To those of you who are concerned about behind the neck pressed and the problems it may cause in the shoulder. I do not want to get into a long and drawn out discussion here, as it would be very easy to write a whole chapter on this, so I will try to be short and simple. Bottom line with behind the neck presses is that it puts your shoulders in an externally rotated position under load. This places extreme stress on the anterior capsule for most people. Once this capsule is stretched you are in for a life of shoulder instability. The only way is can be repaired is surgically. So why would anyone want to take this chance. Trust me, I have been training since I was 13, I am now 36. I made the mistake when I was young of doing too much work behind my neck, (pulldowns too) I paid the price, as I had 2 shoulder surgeries, and cannot lift heavy anymore. I deal with million dollar athletes, we do not do any work behind the neck, and they all seem to perform very well. I hope this answers some of this lists queries with regard to this. Lorne Goldenberg BPE, CSCS, PFLC, ART, CHEK-2 http://www.strengthtek.com Subject: Re: overhead presses From: Ironman9@webtv.net Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:14:27 -0700 Eugene writes; << Ive always read that presses behind the neck and military presses (overhead presses) were dangerous >> Rumor has it that military presses are safer than behind the neck presses, tho some of the greatest benchers known have all avocated behind the neck presses, ie Coan, Lain ect. I have never had any problems with behind the neck presses but every body is unique, The shoulders are delicate and recieve a lot of work in most upper body presses and pulls, listen to your body, if your shoulders are giving you a lot of soreness or joint popping lay of the shoulders for a while, also take knox gelatin, flax oil and glucosimine, all contribute to joint health. Frank From Targa@sprintmail.com Thu Oct 29 20:39:48 PST 1998 Stephen wrote: > > To build up these suckers will smith machine behind neck presses cut it?? or > will they be neglecting my stabilisers. As its pretty dam difficult to clean > the bar off the floor, then over your head.... then not forgetting to get > stuck with the bar behind you head. Or should I just go for mil > presses..basically looking to add mass fast. As Behind the neck press is > superior in my opinion.. > > Your ideas are values greatly.thanks > Stephen > I take it that you're referring to the lateral head of the delts? There are many different ways to work the lateral heads. Side dumbell raises are pretty good at isolating this muscle. Holding a dumbell in each hand, with hands down at your side and keeping arms stiff, lift your arms straight out to the side until they're about 45* above perpendicular. Dumbell "W" presses are better than military presses IMO. Hold dumbells in each hand in roughly the same position as you would if you were gripping a bar for a military press, except keep your hands in line with your shoulders (so with your head in the middle you look like a giant letter "W"). Now press the dumbells overhead in a slight inward arc, so that at the top of the movement the dumbells are practically touching. -- -Ken Who needs experts? Squat, Bench, Deadlift, Eat.... add weight to the bar and food to your plate. Repeat often. -Jason Burnell (Deepsquatter) http://home.sprintmail.com/~targa/