------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 From: DNA Subject: Re: Arnold presses The Arnold Press is an excellent exercise for anyone who has injured their shoulder performing any type of overhead barbell press. The bar is far to restricitve to allow the shoulders to move in their natural range. This exercise is performed by curling theweights up so that your palms are facing you. Then you raise you _elbows_ not your hands in a straight line to full extension. During this process ther is a natural tendency to turn your palms out. Allow this to happen, but it is not something that you should have to force. The key to good results from this exercise is to keep the elbows from going out like you are performing regular dumbell presses. For this exercise you will probably use 70% of the weight you normally lift with normal dumbell presses. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Robert A Cucci | I have geographically ------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: Mike Miskulin Subject: Re: Bent-over barbell rows or seated cable rows Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 > From: inkedbear@wn.net (Jeffery J.O. Cilione) > which would be recommended for building mass in the lats, and > why--bent-over barbell rows or seated cable rows? i'm already using Bent over barbell rows can potentially place your lower back in a dangerous position if you don't ahere to very strict form. Its not an excercise to try to throw around as much weight as you can. I think dumbell rows are a much better (safer) alternative. Cable rows/ low rows I believe work the lats and the middle portion of the back. The hard part with them is to make sure you contract the muscles you're suppose to! I alternate low rows, pullups, d-rows and reverse grip lat p.d, doing any two one work out and the other two the following back workout. From: "James Krieger" Subject: Re: Bent-over barbell rows or seated cable rows Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 >From: inkedbear@wn.net (Jeffery J.O. Cilione) > >which would be recommended for building mass in the lats, and >why--bent-over barbell rows or seated cable rows? i'm already using >undergrip pulldowns, and need one more exercise. i've tried both but can't >really tell which works the >lats better. thanx in advance. Free weight compound movements are generally better if one is trying to build muscle mass. Free weight exercises will recruit more muscle groups then machine exercises due to the need for stabilization and control of the weight (1,2,3). Therefore, bent-over barbell rows will be more effective overall than seated cable rows. 1. Foran, B. Advantages and disadvantages of isokinetics, variable resistance and free weights. NSCA Journal. pp. 24-25. Feb.-Mar. 1985. 2. McCaw, S.T., and J.J. Friday. A comparison of muscle activity between a free weight and machine bench press. J. Strength Cond. Res. 8:259-264. 1994. 3. Stone, M.H. Considerations in gaining a strength-power training effect (machines vs. free weights). NSCA Journal. pp. 22-24, 54. Feb.-March 1982. ------------------------------ From: chass@unixg.ubc.ca (Calvin Hass) Subject: Re: Rear-Deltoid Work Date: 18 Mar 1997 05:18:25 GMT junaid ahmed memon (junaidm@wam.umd.edu) wrote: : On 17 Mar 1997, Krista Scott wrote: : > Calvin Hass wrote in article : > > Seated, bent-over dumbell laterals. I'm of the opinion that it's far : > > more beneficial to do direct rear-deltoid work than anterior. : > I also include back flyes in my routine. I find the exercise targets the : > rear delts well. You can do them in a variety of ways; I prefer the : OK this is what i dont get. have you guys really experienced amazing : amount of growth from doing laterals and back flys. mine grow from pullin : deadlifts , chins and other back work. my 0.02 is that unless you are : competing direct rear delt exercises are a BIG waste of time. I am Speaking from an anecdotal POV, I disagree. It was quite a while before I ever trained using deadlifts or chins, and in this period I only used seated bent-over DB laterals and achieved (at least what I believe to be) great rear-delt development. For what it's worth, I'll put my pix up on my page. Deadlifts & chins helped later on, but I still attribute nearly all of my initial development to that particular exercise. Of course, as people differ, so do results -- what works for a Joe Average like me may not work for a pro. I do agree, however, that in general there may be other exercises that may involve RDs moderately (indirectly), suitable for non-competers; but since I have & will continue to compete I feel they are crucial. Cal. Calvin Hass chass@unixg.ubc.ca Weights, Windsurf, Mountain Bike, From: gmkane@aol.com (Gmkane) Subject: Re: Rear-Deltoid Work Date: 21 Mar 1997 04:55:08 GMT Steve Townsley's reason for rear delt work (muscular balance) is absolutely spot on. During my years of lifting (I'm older than almost everyone who participates in m.f.w.so it is still lifting, not BB'ing, to me) I always neglected rear delt work. I guess what you can't see easily in the mirror doesn't get that much attention in your workouts. I wound up with bilateral chronic pain and impingement for about 3 years, to the point of having to cease all lifting. I couldn't even lift my arms to 90 degrees or put on a coat without pain. I finally couldn't take the pain anymore and begged an orthopod at WVU to cut me and ream out the space that the tendon goes through. He said that I should try physical therapy. Having very little confidence in P.T., due to recovery from a knee 'scope a few years before this incident, I agreed only on the condition that if in 4 weeks I had not significantly improved, he would cut. Period. He agreed. I'm a believer in P.T. now (WVU has a great P.T. group) and find myself back to about 95% or better in both shoulders. The problem that they find with chronic shoulder pain in most lifters (at WVU - football and hockey players, etc.) is muscular imbalance between the front delt and rear. The shoulders on some lifters will actually start to curl forward as the imbalance continues to increase. As the angle of curl increases, so does the probability of impingement. I religiously never neglect my rear delts now that I am back to near normal. The bent over rear lateral is great but another exercise that is excellent is what I call a punch up. Just take dumbbells (I use a smith machine) and lie on your back. Do a simple press to full extension and hold the 'bells (bar) in this position. Then, punch up towards the ceiling, getting as much extension as you can get, being mindful to only use your rear delts to move the weight. If using a bar, keep your hands close - as you would do a close grip press. Fight the downward motion as you come back to rest, especially as you near completion of the set and start to fatigue. Do three sets as you would normally do any exercise, then follow with rear laterals. A real burn and very good to maintain the muscular balance that Steve spoke about. Just my rather long .02. gmk From: chass@unixg.ubc.ca (Calvin Hass) Subject: Re: Rear-Deltoid Work Date: 20 Mar 1997 21:30:50 GMT MINWHIT (minwhit@aol.com) wrote: : o.k. I give. What are bent-over laterals. Aha.. More converts! Description follows: -Sit on the end of a bench, legs bent 90degrees over the end -Bend forward so that your chest is brought towards your knees -Grab two *light* dumbells and rest them just below the bench, directly behind your shoes -Raise the DBs directly out to the sides with a slight bend in your arms -Go up as far as arms roughly parallel to the ground -Try to avoid raising your torso as you lift Cal. -- Calvin Hass chass@unixg.ubc.ca Weights, Windsurf, Mountain Bike, University of British Columbia Trials, Ski, Formula SAE Racing ... N O F E A R ... Gary Rosenburg wrote: > > When I do military press I use a weight so I reach complete failure at about > the 8th rep....the problem is that my muscles just go numb and give out...I > never really feel a good pump or pain. Is this a common thing with this > exercise? What is a better way to really hit the delts so I can feel it? > Or do I even need to feel it? > I get the same kind of effect; that is, I am not really feeling the exercise, and then all of a sudden, I am unable to do even one more rep. What I have tried to do is decrease the weight and squeeze like hell on each rep, trying to really feel it in the delts. I also try to go really heavy a few times, all in the name of giving the delts something different to adapt to. You also might want to try doing lateral raises to work your delts; I have never tried them, but next time I change up my workout I am going to start. -- --------------------- Matt's Bodybuilding and Fitness Resources: http://www.nwinfo.net/~mstaples Matt Staples Washington State University Pullman, Washington E-Mail: mstaples@poboxes.com --------------------- Gary Rosenburg wrote: > > When I do military press I use a weight so I reach complete failure at about > the 8th rep....the problem is that my muscles just go numb and give out...I > never really feel a good pump or pain. Is this a common thing with this > exercise? I think it is. I get a pump from laterals, but not as much when I do presses, but you should get a pump. You might try this: strip downs. After you hit failure, strip down the weight and go right back at it to failure again. That has always given me a better pump. What is a better way to really hit the delts so I can feel it? After a set of strip downs, hit the lateral raises, and you will have a huge pump. DOn't use heavy weight, use light weight with good form - much better. I use wimpy 20's or 25's but I press with 225 to give you an idea of how light to go. Keep you thumbs slightly downward with your pinky side of your hand slightly up towards the ceiling. If you do the above, you will be pumped beyond belief. > Or do I even need to feel it? People will argue this. Some days I can't get a pump (overall) but does that mean I didn't do anything? DOubt it. > > Actually, the same thing happens with declines too. After a hard set of flat > bench I can really feel the pecs pumped up and burnin a bit, but after decline > I don't feel anything really in the lower pecs. Any reason fer this? Probably because it's a worthless exercise. It doesn't work lower chest - that's a myth. Cut them out completely and you will develop faster, IMHO. From: grube@wam.umd.edu (CEG) Subject: Re: Overhead press, seated or standing Date: 16 May 1997 20:04:07 GMT Bart Van Hoyweghen (bvh@acse.be) wrote: : What is the best way to do overhead press, seated ( to protect the : back) or standing (which uses more muscles to stabilise the body). : Also, I feel much more stable doing overhead presses behind the head. : I have the tendency to bent my back backwards when I press before the : head. : I have read somewhere that presses before the head are better. Is : there a reason why? : Bart Ok there are disadv. and adv. to each. Behind the neck can be very bad for the rotator cuff. However when lifting in front we tend to cheat by arching our back and using our chest more. I prefer doing them in front and trying not to cheat. Doing them seated will help because you can concentrate on keeping your back flat against the seat. Rotator cuff problems can be really nasty and put you out for a long time. My brother is out right now with one. -ceg Subject: Re: lats, delts From: Sandeep De Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:42:07 -0800 In so far as side delts, two exercises will always stay in my regimen. First is dumbbell presses, with some slight modifications. Do them standing w/o a belt - it will translate to greater stabilizer strength in the future. Furthermore, technique is the key for this method, not weight. Draw your arms back as far as comfortably possible. Press the bells up in a wide arc. Finally, DO NOT lock out at the top of the movement. A good tempo for this movement is 2-0-3-1. If you get all three points down, you should feel a strong involvement of your medial delts. Secondly, I like cable side raises. Make sure to grab the opposite handle with the opposite hand - i.e. at a crossover station, grab the left handle with the right hand, vice versa. Then assume the starting position for side raises. A 3-1-4-1 cadence is good here. This exercise is different from normal side raises - where there really seems to be tension on the side delts only at the top of the movement. Because of the cables and grip - you get tension through the entire range of motion, esp. in the first 2/3 of the movement when the medial delts are being stretched. If you're looking for soreness, this will work. I've found that side delts respond positively to slightly higher volumes that other bodyparts. Hope this helps. (Sorry for the long post). Sandeep De The Power Factory - http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/4039/ Subject: Re: delts From: "Pocket Hercules" Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:40:15 -0800 >Ken wrote: >> I've heard that side delts don't get sore and I almost believe it. I do >> one heavy set of overhead dumbbell presses (after a warm-up set, rest, then >> superset laterals with another set of OHDP and try to make each rep last >> for 5 seconds or so. I use wrist weights so I can go up a half a pound >> whenever I get up to 8 reps. Good luck You want bigtime sore side delts, try this exercise. After doing behind the neck barbell presses, add some more weight (careful, not too much, just enough that you wouldn't be able to fully press normally) and do 1/4 presses, i.e. at the top of the motion before elbows locked out, bring the bar slowly down for a quarter of the motion, then push it back up. Do a couple of those and FEEL THE BURN! I highly recommend you use a Smith machine for this exercise in particular. later all, keep banging...