Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:51:07 -0600 From: Keith Hobman Subject: Re: Deadlift performance At 7:44 PM -0600 1/7/02, Steve Hill wrote: >Hello everyone. I am trying to better the Deadlift/ I have been exp. with >foot placement. A great coach (Rich Peters) told me to angle my feet >outward. I have been doing this for the last 3 years. It worked very well. >Recently I have gained some weight and find that my leverages seem to be >changing. I feel more comfortable with my feet straight? Does anyone do >conventional Dl with feet pointed straight. I heard Louie the GuRu Simmons >say once that " If you have trouble locking-out , use straight feet, if >trouble is off the floor use feet flared technique??? Just want to hear >everyones' take on this. Hope the new year if blessed. God bless all, Steve >Hill I've noticed in my sumo I have about 30 lbs more off the floor if my feet are pointed almost straight ahead. I go right out to the plates and still lift better with the feet almost straight ahead (might be about 10 degrees off). Go figure. Keith Hobman Saskatoon, Canada Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:26:55 -0600 From: "Rickey Dale Crain" Subject: Re: Deadlift performance take rich's advice and keep them tilted out............ Rickey Dale Crain There I was, confidently expecting to set a new PB of 170kg (about 375lbs) in my deadlift. First of all, my warm-up sets seemed a bit harder than usual. Hmmm, I wonder whether I'll get this, I think. But I try it anyway. I manage to move it perhaps a millimetre from the ground. Shit. Well, don't want to feel it's been a wasted workout so I drop 5kg to my previous best, wait a while and try again. Fuck, why am I so weak today? Then I realize that, idiot that I am, I've forgotten to take my shoes off as I usually do to deadlift. Suddenly it feels so much easier- although by this time I'm too knackered even to get 160. Anyway, I'd quite like to compete soon (only at university level- and I'm sure that's a much lower standard that it is in the US) and you can't compete in bare feet. So what can you get with a low heel that allows you to get your centre of gravity as far down as possible? Jonathan In article <3C458BA3.E4C89BA7@nospam.world.std.com>, "Wayne S. Hill" wrote: > Jonathan wrote: > > > > Anyway, I'd quite like to compete soon (only at university level- and > > I'm sure that's a much lower standard that it is in the US) and you > > can't compete in bare feet. So what can you get with a low heel that > > allows you to get your centre of gravity as far down as possible? > > Wrestling shoes, or indoor soccer shoes. > > -Wayne I don't like either. Both have heels which tend to move your centre of gravity forward slightly - very bad. Indoor soccer shoes have a fairly thick heel. Wrestling shoes have very little lateral stability if you are doing a sumo style deadlift. For a conventional deadlift ballet slippers work pretty good, since you don't need lateral stability. Even better in my opinion are what I call 'old man slippers'. You can buy cheap slippers at Walmart with a thin rubber sole and felt uppers which work great for a conventional deadlift. Another good option is water shoes. To me, the best weightlifting boot is a canvas 'Chuck Taylor' rip-off. I don't care that much for the actual Chuck cause the sole is too thick and it has a heel. I buy a cheap canvas shoe with a waffled rubber sole one size too small. I take out the insole and use nippers to cut away all the 'waffling' in the heel so that when I'm done I have a solid rubber sole that is about 1/4" thick with no heel at all. I don't bother putting in an insole. I use this shoe for squatting, benching and deadlifting. I used to use ballet slippers for conventional, but prefer my canvas shoes now. Very solid shoe with good lateral stability and no heel. Since I squat wide stance and have good flexibility it works very well for me. -- Keith Hobman On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:04:21 GMT, khobman@sk.sympaticoNOSPAM.ca (Keith Hobman) wrote: >In article <3C458BA3.E4C89BA7@nospam.world.std.com>, "Wayne S. Hill" > wrote: > >> Jonathan wrote: >> > >> > Anyway, I'd quite like to compete soon (only at university level- and >> > I'm sure that's a much lower standard that it is in the US) and you >> > can't compete in bare feet. So what can you get with a low heel that >> > allows you to get your centre of gravity as far down as possible? >> >> Wrestling shoes, or indoor soccer shoes. >> >> -Wayne > >I don't like either. Both have heels which tend to move your centre of >gravity forward slightly - very bad. Indoor soccer shoes have a fairly >thick heel. Wrestling shoes have very little lateral stability if you are >doing a sumo style deadlift. > >For a conventional deadlift ballet slippers work pretty good, since you >don't need lateral stability. Even better in my opinion are what I call >'old man slippers'. You can buy cheap slippers at Walmart with a thin >rubber sole and felt uppers which work great for a conventional deadlift. >Another good option is water shoes. > >To me, the best weightlifting boot is a canvas 'Chuck Taylor' rip-off. I >don't care that much for the actual Chuck cause the sole is too thick and >it has a heel. > >I buy a cheap canvas shoe with a waffled rubber sole one size too small. I >take out the insole and use nippers to cut away all the 'waffling' in the >heel so that when I'm done I have a solid rubber sole that is about 1/4" >thick with no heel at all. I don't bother putting in an insole. I use this >shoe for squatting, benching and deadlifting. I used to use ballet >slippers for conventional, but prefer my canvas shoes now. > >Very solid shoe with good lateral stability and no heel. Since I squat >wide stance and have good flexibility it works very well for me. I have a pair of red "Bullet" Chuck Taylor All-Star rip offs. High Top canvas shoes, from a discount store. Flat soles. They have a cheap plastic patch on the ankle (for stability :)). They are great, and in addition to being good deadlift and squat shoes, are also a fashion statement. Bob Deadlift slippers are standard equipment, cheap, and the next closest thing to bare feet - why not use them? I got mine at Crain's Muscle World and they say so right on the side - that way no one thinks they're ballet slippers . Is anyone aware of deadlift slippers *not* being legal in any kind of competition? -S- Article 708427 of misc.fitness.weights: Path: news.u.washington.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp.abs.net!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.onr.com!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3C61AFD7.EE21DEE3@onr.com> From: Lyle McDonald Reply-To: lylemcd@onr.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights Subject: Re: SL Deadlift Problem References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 36 Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 22:35:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.28.100.99 X-Complaints-To: news@onr.com X-Trace: news.onr.com 1013034940 64.28.100.99 (Wed, 06 Feb 2002 16:35:40 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 16:35:40 CST Organization: Onramp Access, Inc. Xref: news.u.washington.edu misc.fitness.weights:708427 ?? ParaDox ?? wrote: > > Alan McClure wrote: > : If you are trying to keep your lower back straight as in: > : Straight Leg Straight Back DL > : Then you won't be able to go down really far. In fact Fred Hatfield (Dr. > : Squat) specifically says not too go too far below your knees, if at all, > : because your back will start to round. > > What does he mean by going below your knees? Does he mean your > hands/weights? Yes. In general, except for the occasional person with gumby-like flexibility, about the furthest down your shin that the bar will come in a flat-backed SLDL is knee level. I've known one or two people who got considerably lower than that but they were the exception. > Well, I realized I get to around 45 degrees with my back, > so my hands are near the middle of my thighs and then my lower back > rounds. > > So is this: lack of flexibilty, weak hams/lower back, etc? Generally a sign of hamstring flexibility. About the best way I ever found to teach someone a SLDL without rounding their back was to put them in front of a mirror. Keeping your head neutral relative to your torso, perform the SLDL movement while watching yourself in the mirror. If you find that you can't see yourself anymore, it means that you rounded your back and are now looking at the floor. Of course, you can cheat (just in case Boojum's lurking) by hyperextending your neck so taht you can see yourself with a rounded back. But assuming you keep your head in a relatively neutral position relative to your torso, if you can't see yourself, you've rounded your back. Lyle Article 708405 of misc.fitness.weights: Path: news.u.washington.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-hub.siol.net!zur.uu.net!bos.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!lexis-nexis!not-for-mail From: "Foobar" Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights Subject: Re: SL Deadlift Problem Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 17:09:46 -0500 Organization: Lexis-Nexis Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: b6dhcp103.lexis-nexis.com X-Trace: mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com 1013033396 18596 138.12.99.103 (6 Feb 2002 22:09:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@lexis-nexis.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Feb 2002 22:09:56 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: news.u.washington.edu misc.fitness.weights:708405 > When I used to do SL Deads, I never went down too far, because I wasnt > that flexible, I only went about almost 90 degrees, I felt that was the > most I could bend over without rounding my back. > Thats not too much IMO, because I see ppl do deads on steps and other > things. > Now I havent worked out in almost 4 months because of a shoulder injury, > but I decided to go back into the gym yesterday. > I did a light set of SL Deads with just 65 lbs. I felt fine, but then I > looked in a mirror, I was totally rounding my back! > I tried it again slowly, it seems that my back is fine until I hit 45 > degrees then my back starts to round. > This is pitiful, I dont even think I should do them anymore, what kind of > results can I expect if I dont even bend more than 45 degrees. 45 degrees? Do you mean you're bent over so that your upper body is parallel to the floor (90')? If the angle between your shins and your upper body is 45', you have exceptional flexibility. |\ What's important is to get a stretch in the hamstrings. You should be able to do that at 90', especially if you haven't worked out in 4 months. Remember, you don't fold over at the waist - you push your ass backward, which brings the upper body down accordingly. If you just fold over, you have to go way down to get a stretch. If you push your butt back, you'll feel the stretch much sooner. I have been doing SLDLs for about 3-4 months, and I've really packed some meat on my hamstrings - and I never go past parallel to the floor. The key to keeping the back from rounding is to retract the scapulae - and hold the retraction - before pivoting the hips. So, pull your shoulder blades back, and _slowly_ push your hips back until you feel the stretch in your hamstrings. If you go too fast, you'll find it more difficult to keep from folding over, when using heavy weights. > > What stretches should I do? Do I need to stretch my lower back or > hamstrings? Both.