From: rmann@escape.ca (Bob Mann) Subject: Re: bench press progress Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 03:08:06 GMT scblademan@aol.com (Scblademan) wrote: >i am making virtually no progress. >i am 47 yrs old >163 pounds, 5 11 >benching at the most 215 >any ideas??? We really need more details to offer much in the way of advice. Some things to ponder. Are you working out too much? At your (our) age we need more rest. Do you eat enough? If you want to get bigger you can't scrimp on the calories. Do you get enough sleep? Are your workouts too long? As you get older you can't stay in the gym as long and still be putting everything into your workout. Do you work your back? Your back is very important to your bench as a stabilizer and assistant. Do you work mainly the big compound execises? This is the only way to really gain strength. How long have you been lifting? Gains slow down after the first few months and it might seem that you have stopped. Some things to try. Try doing shorter more intense workouts for a while. Nothing but compound movements. Do each exercise only once per week. Try creatine monohydrate. Make every other bench workout a bumbell session. Do bench on Monday and weighted dips on Thursday. Do squats. Do deadlifts. These last two will add strength all over. Don't do too many sets for each body part. 2 or 3 should be enough to gain strength (not including warmup sets). Eat frequent meals. Bob Mann From: "John D. Sanders" Subject: Re: Morons in the gym..(speed work) Date: 1 Nov 1996 15:46:02 -0700 Garry Holmen wrote: > > Lyle McDonald (lylemcd@edge.edge.net) wrote: > : > : Yeah, this is the problem with most types of power training in the gym. > : If you can't release the implement (body or weight) you will be > : deccelarating the weight for over half of the total movement. To work on > : the explosive nature, you have to be able to accelerate the weight for the > : entire time. There are special smith machines that allow this sort of > : thing to be done and medicine balls can be used creatively for the same > : thing (the weight would likely be far too low though). I think your best > : bet for trying this with bench would be explosive push-ups where you push > : your entire body off the floor. That's about all I can come up with. > : FWIW, studies have found that maximal power production occurs at roughly > : 30% of 1RM. The question remaining to be studied is whether or not that > : is the best place to improve power production. > > I've seen other studies which show optimal power output at around 50% > of 1RM... Another way to do explosive work on the bench press or squat > is to add weight as the bar goes off your chest. The higher it is the > heavier it gets... thus less need for deccelation. There are some machines > that allow you to do this... as well Louie Simmons suggests chains > could be added. On the bottom of the lift you're only pressing say > 1\2 the length of chain but at the top you're pressing almost the full > weight. Of course this would make a lot of noise and look really funny > in a lot of gyms. Plus you need to invest in a large gym bag. 8^) > > Garry Some friends and I were experimenting with partials a while ago, they did help us drive through a plateau(sp?). I'm not sure if it was mental or not, but whatever it was it worked. Here's what we did. 1st Set ======= In a power rack set the bottom pins as even with your chest as you can and the top pins 1/3 of the distance of your fully extended reach. Do a set. (This one will be the lowest weight.) 2nd Set ======= Set the bottom pins where the top were before and the top 2/3 of your reach. Another set. (stronger) 3rd Set ======= Set the bottom pins where the top were for the second set, no top pins. Another set (heavy as you can go) Like I said not sure if it was a mental plateau or not, but at the end of 4 weeks my bench was up 30lbs. Any thoughts. -- ---------------------[ John D. Sanders ]--------------------- http://www.primenet.com/~galtar From: levisandts@aol.com (LevisAndTs) Subject: Re: Upper Pecks Date: 31 Oct 1996 17:39:42 -0500 In article , lylemcd@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald) writes: >> between incline and flat bench presses and whether or not it was standard> > >Yes, this is totally standard. As a general rule you can decline more >than you can flat bench and flat bench more than you can incline. I think >it has to do with several factors including leverages, relative range of >motion, etc. I agree with the first premise, that yes, training weight variations are standard between incline/flat bench; flats being stronger. However, I don't agree that you can always decline more than you can flat bench. Flat benching often tends to be the strongest of the bench sets. There are several factors involved in the kinesiology of bench type manouvers. First, there is the angle of motion of the movement with respect to the body, and therefore the leverage of the origin and insertion of the muscle on the arm. Secondly, there is the quantity of muscle fibers involved overall in the movement. This includes not just the chest, but also other supporting muscles, most notably the triceps. Finally, there is the length of the motion itself which is shorter for decline than for flat benching therefore directly afftecting the amount of work being done. (work = force*distance) the distance for declines being: COS(decline angle)*distance of flat bench movement or with a typical 30 degree decline it is only 86.6% as much work. Flat benching both has the best "angle of attack" and involves the greatest quantity of muscle fibers therefore theoretically should be the strongest exercise. That being said I realize this is not always the case. Other factors involved would be the strength of the contributing muscles and the unmeasurable "idea" that someone thinks they are stronger in one exercise than another and therefore give a better effort. Just some thoughts, - Rich From: lylemcd@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald) Subject: Re: Chest Exercise... Date: 18 Nov 1996 03:55:49 GMT In article , jimc@skypoint.com (Jim Carlson) wrote: > Incline press favors the upper pects > Decline press favors the lower pects This has been hashed out here before and I'm willing to give it a maybe. > Narrow grip favors the inner pects > Medium grip slightly favors the outer pects > Wide grip favors the outer pects Nonsense, nonsense and nonsense. When a fiber grows, it grows along the length of the fiber. You can no more work the inner portion of a single fiber of the pec major than you can work the lower part of a fiber in the biceps. narrow grip forces the triceps to do more work. Wide grip just stresses the shoulder joint. And, before you start debating this, think about it for a second. If we take the argument that you can work one part of a single fiber (not talking about working different fibers of the same muscle which may be the case with incline vs. flat benches) to it's ultimate conclusion, you should be able to build a muscle that was square, or concave, or any other shape you wanted. Let's say your looking at a fiber of the chest as if you were standing at somebody's feet (you are looking up so horizontally at their chest). The fiber inserts at the sternum, raises up a bit (all muscles have a greater cross sectional area in the middle of the muscle belly compared to the ends) and then inserts again into the upper arm. So, __________ sternum -------------------------- humerus (this is schematic and it's really hard to draw in ASCII). Now, let's say that narrow grip benches could conceivable work the inner pec (end of the fiber nearest the sternum). And our trainee did nothing but this exercise so only that portion of the muscel grew. You should be able to get something like: ---------- ---------------- sternum ----------------------- humerus When you see somebody with pecs shaped like this, take a picture. He's truly a freak of nature. Lyle McDonald, CSCS From: km65@acmex.gatech.edu (Kev) Subject: Re: grip for benches Date: 9 Dec 1996 17:59:03 GMT Hardill (hardill@ptbo.igs.net) wrote: : Need to work on pecs big time. Making gains but real fuckin slow. : Wonder if my grip has a major effect on results. Presently using : slightly wider than shoulder width. Is this cool? : Thanks for any advice. I made zero gains on chest until a friend showed me how a competitive power lifter taught him to bench. For grip width, lie on your back on the floor. Rest your upper arms on the ground, and bend your elbows up ninety degrees. That's the right width. When you're benching, lie on the bench and push your feet as far back as they will go without your heels raising. Arch your back as much as possible by pushing your ass toward your shoulder blades using your feet. Practice for a while with lower weights. I started this and my bench went WAY up and has been consistently gaining since. The amount of size I've added to my chest in the last two months alone outweighs total gains in chest over the previous two years. Somthing DEFINITELY clicked. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin Mather Associated Consultant Engineers * GT POD Engineering Dept. Mail: km65@prism.gatech.edu * PGP key avail. upon request. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Jason Burnell Subject: Re: grip for benches Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 20:53:43 -0800 Bigdog wrote: > Kev wrote: > > I made zero gains on chest until a friend showed me how a competitive power > > lifter taught him to bench. {snip} > I have always believed in and strived to to keep my back on the bench, > not arched at all. Not saying this advice is bad, I'm more interested > in what the benifit/detriment of this technique may be. Seems to me it > may be dangerous for the lower back. > Any input, anyone ? Almost all big benchers use as much of an arch as possible. The main advantage is that by raising the chest as high as possible you reduce the distance the bar must travel. A shorter stroke means less work is required. It doesn't seem to hurt the lower back; probably because in competition you are required to keep your butt on the bench. It takes a while to get the arch technique down and keep a good leg drive without lifting your butt but the two(arch and leg drive) can add 20 or so pounds to ones bench. Also some benchers who use a good arch recommend training the decline press as this motion helps to establish a groove similar to a good arch on a flat bench. I haven't tried this yet but I will. If it works I'll let you know. Has anyone else? Jason Burnell From: garry@mda.ca (Garry Holmen) Subject: Re: grip for benches Date: 10 Dec 1996 23:27:48 GMT wgl00@ail.amdahl.com wrote: : : Surely this is very bad for your back?? I was always advised to keep my knees : raised over your stomach, back flat against the bench. (Actually, I found that : the more I raised my butt of the bench [as if to roll over my shoulder], the : more I could concentrate the weight across my chest) Actually it's pretty much text book form for the bench press. You want an arch in your back during the lift... shoulders should be pulled back. Feet, butt, shoulders and head should not move through out the entire movement. If your back cannot handle this sort of positioning then you probably want to build up the back muscles. (Which one should be doing anyhow.) Garry From: Jason Burnell Subject: Re: grip for benches Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:55:02 -0800 Kev wrote: > > What's the deal with shirts? I don't think it's too fair that they can wear > those things in competition. I tried one on (it took about half an hour) and > could EASLILY surpass my max. Sort of like using a pogo stick in a slam dunk > contest. > >Yep, you're right. It's pretty fair because almost every one wears them.The ADFPA, AAU and USPF have pretty strict rule about the type of shirts that can be worn so it kind of evens out. It really depends on your build. If you have a huge chest and strong TRIS you generally get a lot out of the shirt. Some guys claim 50 lbs etc. I get 15-20. I have close (24")gripped 370 with no shirt and benched(32") 391 with a shirt. I'm closing in on 400 but the long arms that help the deadlift hinder the bench but it WILL happen soon. I want to do a shirtless 402 in August. I will do a couple of raw meets this year because I'm getting tired of wearing that shit. Jason