From: TAC@ysub.ysu.edu (Troy Allen Cross) Newsgroups: misc.fitness Subject: Strength Standards Posted: Mon Mar 25 12:46:52 1991 Previously, someone asked about strength standards. The following is from "Mass" by Robert Kennedy and Dennis B. Weis (which I highly recommend). Strength Standards for Men (in pounds) Body Weight Full Squat Bench Press Deadlift Standing Press Barbell Curl ----------- ---------- ----------- -------- -------------- ------------ 105-120 310 260 360 170 70 121-135 340 285 390 190 85 136-155 370 310 420 210 105 156-170 400 335 450 230 120 171-185 430 360 480 250 135 186-205 460 385 510 265 155 206-225 490 410 540 275 175 226-245 520 430 570 285 195 246-Plus 550 440 600 295 205 These are for a one-rep maximum for an advanced bodybuilder. Beginner's goal should be 60 percent of each standard lift for one-rep maximum. Intermediate's goal should be 80-85 percent of each standard lift for one-rep maximum. Women have 56 percent of the strength of a man in their upper torso. Women have 72 percent of the strength of a man in their lower torso. Women should take the 56 (upper) or 72 (lower) percentage followed by the 60 (beginner), 80-85 (intermediate), or 100 (advanced) percentage. Again, I would like to recommend this book to anyone lifting weights consistently for more than 6 months. Troy From: horwath@rtsg.mot.com (George Horwath) Newsgroups: misc.fitness Subject: Re: I don't WANT to be a bodybuilder Date: 24 Mar 94 18:39:33 GMT Here's some more numbers for your perusal. I believe the ones from "Mass" were posted here before.... >From the book "Super Squats"... ------------ Strength goals the average man *can* attain (no drugs or special genetic potential required)... Bench Press 125% of bodyweight (BW) for 12 reps Stiff Leg Deadlifts 150% BW for 15 reps Bent over Row 125% BW for 12 reps Behind Neck Press 75% BW for 12 reps Breathing Squats 150% BW (minimum) for 20 reps Body weight formula - the max weight the average man *can* attain (no drugs or special genetic potential required) - this means fairly lean, but not .000001% body fat. Start with 100 lbs. for 5'. For every inch over 5', add 10 lbs. The result is your *base* weight. Your max weight would be 30 to 50 lbs. above that, closer to 30 if you've got a smaller frame, closer to 50 for a larger frame. 60 (beginner), 80-85 (intermediate), or 100 (advanced) percentage. ------------ From: Neil_MacAskill@mindlink.bc.ca (Neil MacAskill) Newsgroups: misc.fitness Subject: Re: Formula for calculating 1-rep max Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 23:09:22 -0700 (PDT) In article <2vs260$e9o@beta.qmw.ac.uk>, kaoskat@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (franklin) writes: > > [snip] > : > Does anybody know what the formula for calculating a 1-rep max is > from > : > your working weight and reps? For example, if you can bench press > 185 > > : If you haven't been provided with this yet, just let me know where I > can > : fax it to you. > > If you have more detailed information than in the FAQ, please post it > here instead. > > (I can bench 100Kg for 12 reps - to the best of my *estimates* (as the > weight stack only takes 100kg), I cannot bench 120Kg. I think the FAQ > implies I should be able to easily). > > Dave > I got several requests for the "Predicted 1 RM Based on # of Reps Using Sub-Max Loads", some from Europe as well as several places in North America which would all cost money to fax to. So here's a short summary which should tell you what you need to know: The predicted 1 RM can be calculated using the following co-efficients (divide weight by co-efficient for number of reps to predict 1 RM for specified weight). Reps Co-efficient 1 1.0 2 .955 3 .917 4 .885 5 .857 6 .832 7 .809 8 .788 9 .769 10 .752 11 .736 12 .721 13 .706 14 .692 15 .678 You should be aware that this isn't necessarily supposed to work in an absolute manner. It is an estimate and is normally used as a measure of progress by comparing a previous measurement using this method with a previous method. I'm sure there will be gym rats out there who are thinking, "why not just do a 1 rep max?" It's a good point and if you are into heavy weights then that's fine. This method is useful for athletes who use weight training as a means to an end for whom the risk of lifting heavy weights is unacceptable. For instance I have an athlete who uses this to calculate his 1 RM from how many times he can bench press 130 Kg.(8 reps last time we checked). He is one of the best in the world in his sport and I have no wish to have him risk tearing a muscle by struggling with the 165 Kg. which the above system predicts as his true 1 RM. Hope this helps. Neil neil_macaskill@mindlink.bc.ca From: barry@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Barry Merriman) Subject: Re: proportional weight Sender: news@math.ucla.edu Date: Tue, 8 Nov 94 16:49:25 GMT In article <39m8js$fii@pendragon.jsc.nasa.gov> tim@cliff.JSC.NASA.GOV (Tim Sullivan) writes: > >if you bench 300, how much should you be able to squat, deadlift, etc... ? good proportions for sq,dead,bench are 3,3,2 , e.g. 450:450:300; In practice, dead is a bit less than squat, maybe 450:425:300 To be real strong, the bench would be 2 x bodyweight (i.e. that would be elite level as a powerlifter). To be strong, bench would be arounds 1.75 x body -- Barry Merriman UCLA Dept. of Math UCLA Inst. for Fusion and Plasma Research barry@math.ucla.edu (Internet) barry@arnold.math.ucla.edu (NeXTMail) From: damage@interactive.net (Alex Tuckow) Subject: Re: Lifting max. weight Date: 20 Jun 1995 02:46:42 GMT Bill R. Roth (brr@kuentos.guam.net) wrote: : When trying to find your max weight (bench), is it a good idea to build : up weight as you go along? Wouldn't that make you tired and unable to : find your real max? Why not start up at a really high weight and see if : you could do it? I know its probably a dumb question, but please reply. : Thanks. : brr@kuentos.guam.net : Bill Roth : -- Not a dumb question.. and I'm not going to answer with in-depth science behind creatine pools, ATP, or lactic acid buildup.. Just what I've found with *my* experience (disclaimer so no one argues that it's not true!!) :-D Anyway, DEFINITELY do some kind of work before a max.. not only do you have to warm up, but you actually WILL be able to lift more when you attempt your max.. Don't know the reason for this exactly.. Anyway, for example, say you want to attempt a 300 lb. lift.. Warm up a set with 135, move up to 185, then 225, then maybe 250 or so.. DON'T train to failure on these sets, just get a few reps out and get the feel.. practice your form and imagine it is already 300 lbs. on that bar.. DON'T do more than 2 maybe 3 sets before your max attempt (at least that's what works best for me), and go up to maybe 80-85% of the max you want to attempt and do two controlled reps with it.. Then load on the 300, STAY TIGHT DAMNIT on the way down, and BLOW it off your chest.. Done.. I have always been able to bench more this way than when I go in "cold", thinking I have more energy and not being able to lift the weight.. I found out warming up is REALLY important when I bombed (missed all 3 attempts) my first bench meet with a weight I USUALLY worked out with. Good luck.. no.. the lift is YOURS! From: TMccull230@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 Subject: How to Test Leg Strength To test your leg strength you will need to determine your 1RM on a seated leg press. On your first attempt, try to press an amount of weight equal to 2 times your body weight. If that weight is too much or too little, rest 3 minutes and add or remove weight before trying again. Continue to add or remove weight until you locate the amount, to the nearest 10 lbs., that you can press only once. You should be able to press 2.5 times your body weight. If your leg strength is less than 2.5 you need to increase your leg strength. To find the hamstring/quadricep strength ratio you will need to get a 1RM for the leg curl and the leg extension. Once you have determined your best leg curl and best leg extension, divide your leg extension into your leg curl to get the ratio of hamstring to quadricep strength. Example: leg extension is 85 lbs and the leg curl is 50 lbs. 50/85 = 0.59 Your leg curl (ratio) should be at least 75% of your leg extension. If the ratio is < 75%, you really need to do some more work on your hamstrings. Ideally, the scores between the two should be about the same, but usually the hamstrings are the weak link. Tom McCullough MS RD CSCS ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Tom, I was amazed to see the signature on this post. Up until now, I've seen nothing but good advice from TMccull230@aol.com, but when I saw this, I couldn't hold back. You know better than most that no two machines are alike, and that only free weight movements can be used for global comparison. For example, at my old gym (was Universe Gym, in Tewksbury MA, now called East Coast Fitness), there were two leg press machines back-to-back. If I tried to press 2.5xBW on the first, I'd get crushed, and yet, I was moving 500 lbs (> 3xBW) on the other for reps. (Back me up on this Motz, if you remember the machines). A slight difference in seat angle, track elevation, and sled weight make a BIG difference. I'd hate to see some pencil-neck throw a few hundred lbs on the former, unlock the stops, and find his knees in his chest half a second later. > To find the hamstring/quadricep strength ratio you will need to get a 1RM for > the leg curl and the leg extension. Once you have determined your best leg > curl and best leg extension, divide your leg extension into your leg curl to > get the ratio of hamstring to quadricep strength. First, I think the leg extension, being an open kinetic joint exercise, is a dangerous exercise go for a 1RM in. Second, the same argument above goes doubly for leg extension/flexion machines. My old gym had a Universal curl on which I was doing about 120-130 with good form (don't get me started on form with these -- tied with side lateral raises as the most ill-performed movement). At the time I was doing the stack (250 lbs) for 6-8 reps on the Nautilus extension. Thus, my ratio would be around 50%. My new gym has the same extension machine, and a Nautilus curl machine, on which I have trouble maintaining proper form with 70 lbs. So now my ratio is only 28%. Which number should I use when comparing myself to your metric? Does it matter that I can stiff-legged deadlift (focusing on the hamstrings) 185 lbs for 10 reps, and conventionally deadlift (focusing on the glutes and quads) about 255 for 10? Now that ratio (73%) is more in line with your numbers: > Example: leg extension is 85 lbs and the leg curl is 50 lbs. 50/85 = 0.59 > > Your leg curl (ratio) should be at least 75% of your leg extension. If the > ratio is > < 75%, you really need to do some more work on your hamstrings. Ideally, the > scores between the two should be about the same, but usually the hamstrings > are the wink link. > Besides all of this, I also think it's wrong to globally characterize strength without respect to one's frame, biomechanical disposition, and injury history. I'd get off my soap-box now, but I'm afraid my weak hamstrings would fail in there role as antagonist to support my step down..... --Michael Carr Michael Carr : I don't know how much experience you have in performing strength testing(obviously none), but these are some of the most common methods used by exercise physiologists in testing for leg strength and hamstring to quadricep strength ratios. True, free weights are accurate for leg strength, but I would really hate to try to get an inexperienced lifter to utilize the squat as a method to access leg strength. That would be dangerous. Squats involve much more technique and balance than a leg press, thus it is much simpler to teach someone to use. If I am taking on a new client, I want to immediately assess upper body and lower body strength levels. YOU might put them on the squat rack, but that is probably why I have not lost any clients. Again, let me reiterate, if I have a client that can not leg press 2.5 times their body weight, I know to work more on the legs. Then I determine where the weak link is. The hamstrings, the quads, or both. Then I can accurately write an exercise prescription that will build the body properly. These are very simple methods for assessing strength. >Does it matter that I can stiff-legged deadlift (focusing on the hamstrings) 185 lbs >for 10 reps, and conventionally deadlift (focusing on the glutes and quads) about >255 for 10? NO, it does not. Every biomechanical analysis I have seen of the deadlift showed utilization of the hip flexors, hamstrings, quadriceps, glutes, and erectors. While the quads are actively extending the knee the hamstrings are extending the hip. Now deadlifts would hardly be a valid assessment of quadracep strength since it is movement that involves more than one joint as well as more than one muscle group. Furthermore, I don't know what you call a stiff-legged deadlift, but as far as I know, this is an exercise that is designed to isolate the erectors (ie. pulling the weight from the floor with the knee in a slightly flexed position). Even at that, more than one muscle group must work to pull the weight from the floor forming another kinetic chain movement. This is definitely not a valid assessment of the muscles of the hamstring any way you perform it. As far as I am aware there are only one exercise causes the muscles of the quadriceps to be isolated while performing concentric extension, the leg extension. There is only one exercise that will isolate the hamstring while it is performing concentric flexion, the leg curl. >> On your first attempt, try to press an amount of weight equal to 2 >> times your body weight. > If I tried to press 2.5xBW on the first, I'd get crushed, Michael, use your head, did I say to do 2.5xBW on your first attempt? Next what does the term FIRST ATTEMPT refer to? Again use your head, you are an experienced lifter aren't you? Before one attempts a 1RM should they not first warm up? If you can't do 1/2 your body weight in a warm up what kind of sense would it make to go heavier. I really don't think the readers of this list are as ignorant as you seem to think. >only free weight movements can be used for global comparison. Again you have shown what little you know about strength testing methods, Cybex equipment is used frequently. >First, I think the leg extension, being an open kinetic joint exercise, is a >dangerous exercise go for a 1RM in. Again you are showing your lack of knowledge. It is very common to isolate muscles and assess 1RM strength. Have you not ever taken a physiology of exercise course? These kind of assessment are done frequently in labs even on the undergraduate level. >. I'd hate to see some pencil-neck throw a few hundred lbs on the former, The reason many of us spend hours contributing to this list is to help new weight lifters (we certainly don't get paid). Weight lifting has been my life for about 25 years. I really hate to see this kind of attitude. I really think all of us were beginners at one time or another. Tom McCullough MS RD CSCS ------------------------------