Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 From: "Peace be with you." Subject: Re: Strengthening the grip > From: John Low > Does anyone have any suggestions for me to strengthen my grip on bars? When > i do lat pulldowns, my hands always give way first before my lats, which can > be quite frustrating and not resulting in any gains for the lats. Order Mastery of Hand Strength by John Brookfield from Iron Mind Enterprises POB 1228, Nevada City CA 95959. It's about $15US. It will really help anyone build their grip and forearms. Dave ******************************************************************************** Dave Giurintano Paul Brand Biomechancis Lab giurin@resdjg.dnet.lsu.edu GWL Hansen's Disease Center (504) 642-4731 W Carville LA 70721 (504) 642-4738 F ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 From: "Glenn Peden" Subject: Re: Strengthening the grip John, There are several good ways to improve grip strength. Two of the most simple involve, of course, gripping something. There are various grip strengthening devices marketed...the ones from Ironmind Enterprises have been mentioned here from time to time. Alternately, if you have access to a store that carries rock climbing gear, you should be able to find grip exercisers there. Something to do in the gym is to grab a couple of 10 lb Olympic plates, and hold them, letter sides facing in, between your thumb and fingers (i.e., you grip the smooth surface). Hold them as long as you can in one hand, and then switch to the other. On occasion I do this with 25s, but I have pretty large hands which makes it easier to do. I finally broke down and got lifting straps, though. I feel like I have pretty good grip strength, but on really heavy back days, my grip would still be failing me before the end of the workout. For lat pulldowns especially (which I generally do near the end of my workout) I find that the straps help me get those last 2 or 3 reps in. Glenn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 From: Michael Carr Subject: Re: Strengthening the grip John, I had the same problem shortly after recovering from nerve-related surgery in my elbow area. After re-learning how to grip the bar, grip failure is no longer a problem. If you watch most people at the gym doing pull-downs, you'll find about half use an underhand grip (thumb on opposite side of bar than fingers), and the other half use a 'false', or overhand, grip (thumb on same side as fingers). And of the latter half, most rest the bar in between the first (knuckle) and second joints of the fingers. In both cases, as they start to get tired on the last few reps, you'll notice their fingers opening up, and the bar slipping outwards, towards the finger tips. When I was learning to deadlift, I was taught to rest the bar across the palm, easily an inch back from the base of the fingers, and loosely wrap the fingers around the bar (i.e., relax the fingers and the relatively small muscles that empower them), and use surface area to my advantage. This way requires much less grip (hand/finger) strength, and (for me at least) makes it easier to take the biceps and brachialis out of the picture, concentrating on the back. I now use this grip on just about every exercise, including bench, french presses, all rows, and several dumbell exercises as well. I don't use it for military's though. The other thing I would advocate is chalk (if your gym allows it). And dump the gloves if you use 'em. Good luck, Michael Carr ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 From: Bulls Fan Subject: Re: Strengthening the grip John, What has worked well for me and my training partner is doing stiff-legged deadlifts and not using straps to hold onto the bar. Don't use an over/under grip or you defeat the purpose. Use a standard overhand grip. Yes, in the beginning, your grip will probably not be able to hold up enough to work your hamstrings. However, within a short period of time, your grip strength should build up considerably. For example, in one month's time, we were able to hold on to 25 pounds more. Now, we can hold more than our hamstrings can handle. Thus, you benefit by improving your grip strength, while also working your hamstrings. As for your lat work, I would suggest you use straps when necessary until your grip strength builds up. Randy From: cmclarz1@homer.louisville.edu (Chuck Clark) Subject: Re: Forearms Training. Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:12:31 GMT VcVc wrote: >As you are the Gurus of Bodybuilding, please give me some tips for training >my forearms and get huge ones. >Although I have a powerful grip ('cause I don't use any straps or hooks), my >forearms don't have size -measure 12"-. When I train back and biceps my >forearms have plenty of work. Posted on Cyberpump.... People are always asking about losing their grip during the deadlift, stiff-legged deadlift, rows and pulldowns. Also, trainees are always complaining of their wrists hurting when doing squats. The common response in magazines is to use straps and utilize the leg press. I say BS. Don't train around a weakness. Give it the attention it deserves. While I frequently rant and rail about isolation mvmts, I believe specific forearm and grip training is very beneficial for the above problems and may prevent them from occurring in the first place. Also, there's a good argument that specific training will make your other exercises more effective. Ken Leistner and Brooks Kubik are both adamant in their opposition for straps. Both, believe that they make any exercise less productive. One of the topics I'm covering this semester in PT school is a therapy technique called PNF. PNF is a topic way beyond the scope of this post, but one of the tenants is the more stimulation you get in performing a mvmt (visual, verbal, proprioceptive, most muscles contracting at once, etc.) the stronger the response you get from the muscles. While this works well for the severely deconditioned, I have no evidence of it working for athletes. It just makes sense that it will work for the trainee. That is, if you use straps the message to the brain and the corresponding message out to the muscles will be lessened and the effects of the exercise will be lessened. Even if you don't buy the PNF reasoning and you have no problems in handling heavy poundages, forearm and grip training will dramatically help your physique's appearance. Think for a second. What bodyparts (besides your head) do people see the most? I'd say your neck and forearms/hands. People worry all the time about the peak of their biceps when they have "buggy whip" forearms. First thing, though, is you have to realize muscles located in the forearm are responsible for movements at the wrist and most of the movements at the fingers. Most wrist exers like wrist and reverse wrist curls don't actually do a good job of working the grip muscles. There are many types of forearm/grip exercises which can go along way in enabling you to handle poundage easier in other activities. According to Randall Strossen in the Ironmind catalog, there are 3 distinct types of grip strength: supporting (like in a deadlift), pinching, and crushing. Following are a few of my favorites and a good representation of the first two. (Working with a good gripper is the really only good way to improve gripping) The farmer's walk - Grab 2 heavy dumbells or dumbell like objects. Keep your shoulders up and back and start walking. Make sure you walk over a marked distance. Don't stop till you drop. For a more intense version, do it rest-pause style. After you drop them, pick them up again after 30 sec. or whatever. Continue again. The deadlift lockout - This is a top position (few inches) deadlift in a rack. You pull it from the pins overhand style and hold it there as long as possible. Another option (courtesy of Hardgainer author Mike Thompson) is to deadlift it and hold it for 10 seconds for 1 rep. Do your sets like any other exercise. Much funner with a thick bar. Wrist roller - Preferably use a thick one. Stand on two benches or whatever and hold your arms perpendicular to the floor. Roll the roller by flexing your wrist. Then on the second windup, do them while extending your wrist. Works both sides and it's hard to hang onto with sufficient weight. Another option (courtesy of MILO author Howard Menkes) is to cut a piece of pipe the length of the width of your cage. Drill a hole in the middle for the rope and place it in the posts of your rack. Stand on a bench or chair to get more range. Takes all the negatives out of this mvmt. You don't have to hold your arms down. Pinch grip - Grab a pair of plates (you'll quickly find out how much). Place them against each other smooth side out, chalk up and pull them off of a bench. Keep the plates perfectly against each other. Just sort of row them up and down from the bench. Re-grip every time the plates hit the bench. Go till they fall out. Grimace in pain. Another option (again from Thompson) is to drill a hole in a smooth 2x4 and place a chain through to hold the plates. Gives you the advantage of being able to train 2 hands at a time and small weight progression. Hub grip - Same as above except you grab the hub of a plate. If you want some way of small weight progression on this exercise, go to a hardware store and find some PVC caps for pipes or cut circles out of wood. Rig it up where you can add weight by chain. Two finger deadlift - Using 2 fingers and thumb of each hand, deadlift a bar off of the floor. See above about grimacing. 1 arm deadlift - Place a loaded barbell between your legs. It should be running front to back. Find the middle of the bar, keep your back flat and deadlift it with one arm. Much funner with a thick bar, again. Don't even think about straps. Sledgehammer lift - Grab a sledgehammer or long pole with weight on the end. Hold it to the side of your body (weight to front and/or back)with your palm towards you. By moving your wrist, pick the head of the sledgehammer up. It looks like you are hammering. Don't move your elbow. Choke up on the sledge if need be. Weaver stick lift - Load up one end of a long pole with a small amount of weight. Lay longways on a bench with the end hanging off. Pick up pole while keeping the pole parallel to the bench at all times. Lower while keeping parallel. Repeat. A few pounds will devastate most. There are many more including working with a real gripper. Also, doing your upper body exercises with a 2" or 3" thick bar will make each very tough (a good thing) endeavor. Find a few exercises that you like (hate?) and rotate them every workout. Don't overdo it, but work hard at it. I put a ~1/2" on my forearms in a couple of months using this technique. Don't blame me if you can't type or hold a tooth brush the next day though. 8^) If you are really interested in grip/forearm training, consult the works of Brooks Kubik (Dinosaur Training) and John Brookfield (The Mastery of Hand Strength). There are always articles in MILO and Hardgainer concerning this topic. Also, everyone ought to get a copy of the Ironmind catalog. Good luck and send me any of your interesting forearm/grip exercises. -- Chuck Clark SPT cmclarz1@homer.louisville.edu University of Louisville, KY http://www.louisville.edu/~cmclarz1 ------------------------------ From: acs@csri.toronto.edu (Alvin Chia-Hua Shih) Subject: Re: Bad form or weak grip? Date: 16 Feb 94 16:07:37 GMT In <2jtbfd$p1n@news.bu.edu> spacefox@bu.edu (Godfrey Degamo) writes: >Hello readers, > On exercises where I have to pull, my forearms and hands fatigue >usually before the primary muscle to be worked on does. It gets so >uncomfortable, that I fear that while in the motions, I will just lose >my grip and send the bar flying. Usually, my right arm fatigues >significanly more than my left. > I try to keep good form as much as possible. I don't know why this >happens? Is it perhaps I grip too strongly? Should I just work on >grip strength? thanks. I would guess (and I do mean *guess*) that you are gripping more tightly than necessary. (Your worry about the bar flying can only increase the tension.) Are your hands completely wrapped around the bar/handle with the thumb closing over your fingers? If so, you're probably gripping too much. Try gripping the bar/handle with your thumb nestled to the side of your hand and just use a "cupping" action of your 4 fingers to pull on the handle. You'll waste less energy trying to "crush" the bar, and you should eventually develop a feel for when you need more grip and when you need less. Try to be more aware of your grip on your warmup sets. People who have played racquet sports are naturals at knowing when to grip tightly and when to grip loosely. The grip only gets strong at the moment of contact. Otherwise the wrist gets all stiff and you rob yourself of power. If it's not tension in your grip, then all I can suggest is the use of lifting straps. They're kind of a pain, especially if there are people lining up for the machine. Save the straps for the heavy stuff. For lighter stuff avoid the straps to build forearm strength. ACS -- Alvin_C._Shih____________________acs@csri.utoronto.ca______________________| Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:18:09 -0400 From: "Dan Wagman, Ph.D, C.S.C.S." Subject: Grip Steve, I'm sorry to say, but it appears that you're approaching your grip training wrong, though you have the right idea about not using straps. You probably should never have used them to begin with. Training specificity is the key here. You need to ask yourself "How is my grip used in pulls?" It's used in an isometric contraction and that's what you need to train. Wrist curls and the like only make you stronger in that particular movement. This isn't to say there worthless, but it's not specific enough. You best bet would be a combination of the following: 1. pulls w/out straps. 2. farmers walk. 3. holding the bar with one hand as long as you can (one of Coan's favorites) and then switching hands. 4. pinch grip. Here you can start with 2 or 3 10's lined up against each other and you hold them for a 10 count or so. Then you work yourself up to 25's, 35's and 45's. I've also got a softball and a baseball. I drilled a hole through them and punched an nail through the hole. Then I bent the part sticking out into a loop. Now I can hang weight via a rope and a D-ring from the balls. I pinch grip them just like you would the plates. 5. grippers. IronMind Enterprises sells these grippers that come in 5 different strengths. They're high quality and get seriously heavy. I've got the No. 2 + 3. Only 7 people ever closed the No.3. They will also help your grip. I'd train my grip just like any other muscle group. Be sure not to overtrain/overwork the area though. When I first got started I was a bit too excited and trained my grip all the time. Bad idea. But if you stick with it and train consistently, you'll never lose a pull. Dan Wagman Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 08:21:11 -0400 From: "Frederick C. Hatfield, Ph.D., FISSA" Subject: Re: Grip Over my career as a lifter, I've had problems holding onto the bar. It wasn't grip strength, but something else...diagnosed three different ways by three different docs...nerve impingement, carpal tunnel syndrome and 7th cervical subluxation. Who knows! I got to the point where I took a doctor with me to all my meets! Worked grip to the point of having the biggest forearms you ever saw. On days when I did deadlifting alone, I easily pulled 825 for a triple -- no straps. But on days when I'd squat first, I could only manage around 760-770 before the bar would slip out of my grasp. Then I'd put on straps and pull the 825. I suspect that working your grip is indeed important, and feel that it will help us guys with small hands keep hold on the bar. But other things often disrupt grip strength. Best exercise for the grip, in my opinion, is a sponge ball about 3 or 4 inches in diameter. Carry it with you everywhere, and work gripping it day in and day out. I don't doubt that some folks may suffer overtraining from working grip constantly, but I'll tel you this -- it's damned near IMPOSSIBLE to overtrain the muscles of the forearms, just as it is the gastrocs. Frederick C. Hatfield, Ph.D., F.I.S.S.A. http://www.ipf.com/fredhome.htm