From: Jason Burnell Subject: Re: Re : Benchpress record... Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 11:10:19 -0800 Al wrote: > > On Sun, 05 Jan 1997 23:05:35 -0800, sprichard > wrote: > > >Al wrote: > >> > >> On 3 Jan 1997 16:13:02 GMT, "ari" wrote: > >> > >> >From what I've read on this NG and on the Internet...so far the > >> >top athletes bench abt 2 times their bodyweight.No one has > >> >ever (on record) benched 2.5 or 3 rimes his bodyweight.Same is > >> >true for the squat and the deadlift.Am I right...??? > >> > > >> >A. > >> > >> Not true for any of the lifts. I Believe Chris Confessore's record > >> is 741 lbs at a bw of 236. Which comes to a 3.13 ratio. > >> > >> Al. > > > >He hasn't done so without wearing a bench shirt. And I seriously doubt > >he could accomplish any where near a triple bodyweight bench without > >using such a gimmick. Anyone know of any legitimate triple bodyweight > >benches done without bench shirts? > > The original poster didn't say anything about the lift being > without a bench shirt. Also how much could the bench shirt add to his > lift, 50-60 lbs? Which would bring the lift down to 681-691 lbs which > means a ratio of 2.88 - 2.92 which is still pretty close to 3. (Which > is still higher than the 2.5 ratio the original poster was asking > about). > > I have never used a bench shirt so i don't know how much it adds to > you lift but the above figures (50-60 lbs) seem fine to me. Am i close > or do they add more?? > > Al. It depends on the person and the shirt. In my experience if you have very strong tris and are weak off the chest you will get a lot from your shirt - perhaps up to 75 lbs(some claim 100 w/a double denim or double canvas shirt - illegal in most meets). If you are like me and are strong off the cehst but stall when it comes to tris, you will get less from the shirt. I have done 370 with a 24" grip shirtless, 380 with a wide (ring fingers on the lines) grip shirtless and I have locked out 396 (hit the uprights) with an Inzer HD blast shirt. Most guys I have talked to that have stronger lockouts say they get @ 25 lbs with a single ply shirt. The shirt mainly helps with explosion off the chest after the pause. It may help you bypass your stickiing point if you can acheive sufficient momentum. -- Jason Burnell From: diesel93@aol.com (Diesel 93) Subject: Re: Re : Benchpress record... Date: 7 Jan 1997 01:47:47 GMT sprichard@etsc.net SAID: > There are so many types and manufacturers of shirts that it could vary > significantly depending on the exact shirt. I've heard estimates of 100 > to 150 pounds. I believe thatt his is goning WAY over board. MOst bench shirts add between 20-60 pounds to your bencg depending if you sticking point is low (weak chest-> more help), or fairly high (weaker tri --> less help from shirt). Anyone here actuall use a bench shirt? > He probably uses the strongest, tightest, most elastic shirt that INZER > makes because of the weight of his benches. I think he probably uses the strongest, tightest, most elastic shirt that INZER makes because he wants to bench the most weight possible. You don't need a bench shirt because you are already using very heavy ways; its not like they actually protect you or anything. > Probably could bench maybe in the 600's without one. MAYBE in the 600s??? I think he'd probably have a legit shot at 700. He'd definetly get at LEAST 650. >But the clencher > is that he would have to max out without a shirt to prove exactly what > he could legitimatly bench. When all is said, this is the only statement that actually is *true*. >I doubt he'd risk his "heavy bench" > reputation trying it though. Definetly. Though even if he benched mid-high 600's @ <250 bodweight, he'd still be a real heavy bencher! > Cheating (the use of gimmicks) even if legal is still cheating (the use > of gimmicks). TOTALLY AGREED! The ONLY legit use of equipment should be a belt (and MAYBE knee wraps for squats). This is the only things that can legitly be used for protection, and not used to lift the extra weight. By the way, if anyone is interested, I posted Chris's routines at my website this evening. If ya check it out, please let me knoe what ya think, as I would like to try them. Comments on my site in general are also appreciated. Thanks. --Eric Adolph, http://members.aol.com/diesel93/eric2.htm From nenutt@earthlink.net Wed Jun 18 06:10:07 PDT 1997 SpdGuitar wrote: > > What are these benching shirts that everyone talks about? What do they > do, look like, etc? > Joshua Azran > Spdguitar@aol.com Bench shirts are made from heavy duty polyester, or denim, or canvas. They fit very tight. If your arms turn blue while you've got it on, it's tight enough, (Kidding, although I've seen it happen). It takes a lot of baby powder and assistance from 1-2 people to get you into it. Once you're in it, you can't put your arms down at your sides and kinda walk around like a Frankenstein character. It's more uncomfortable for us girls, cause of the boob thing, (unless you are flat chested, which I'm definitely not!). It offers support and some protection from shoulder injuries when doing the *heavy* stuff. Most competitors use them at meets. They allow you to do more weight (I've heard anywhere >from 10 -50 lbs, about 30 for me.) I've been told Denim is best, but I have a medium grade Inzer that fits like a rubber glove on a wet hand (Leave this comment alone Jason!) and it works real well. Proper fit is important with any type. They are controversial and there are some who think they ought to be banned. I'll quit wearing one when everyone else does. Nancy :) 8 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:37:25 -0600 From: Bob Mann Subject: Re: En: Bench shirt sizing ------------------------------------------- At 11:28 AM 9/18/97 -0300, Denilson P. da Costa wrote: > > I gave this shirt for a friend who weights 96kg with about 46cm arms > 18" ), and altought not fitting so tight, got perfect for him ! After >getting upset of spending over 100 bucks for an erroneous size, I asked for >a #48 ( as I first tought it should be ) and a #50 EHPHD. The #48 got >"really tight", I barely could open or drop my arms in it, and I only could >descend 120kg during warm ups to my chest after 4 attempts, GOOD... The seam >around neck weakened and slightly and some lines ripped so as to acomodate >my size, whithout ripping the shirt, but ok. Just a tip for using a tight shirt. After you have it on, wet the material. It will allow it to give (but no more than normal) without ripping. A friend of mine does this every time and has never had a shirt let go on him. Bob Mann Winnipeg, Canada. rmann@escape.ca http://www.escape.ca/~rmann Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:12:48 -0800 From: Deepsquatter Subject: Bench Shirts Daron, I'm about the same size as you and what I've found is that what ever size they recommend is about 1 size too large. I don't like the shirts too tight. One person can pull mine on. Maybe thats why I don't seem to get as much out of them as some others do but I really don't feel comfortable in them. Anyway, I've got a regular Blast shirt thats a 52, Heavy Duty Blast Shirts that are 50 and 52 and a High Performance Heavy Duty thats a 54. The sizes for the Regular and Heavy Duty are about the same I think. I don't feel much out of the regular but I do feel more lift off the chest with the HD. The 54 HPHD was originally a 56 but it was too big so I exchanged it for the 54. To be honest, it feels the same as the HD in terms of the fit but it makes it harder to control the bar. I can't find my groove with it. I didn't use it much before I tried it. It was a gift ( I was too cheap to buy one for $77 ) If I were to buy one it would be the HD. Its a bit more comfortable and I seem to get the same out of it as I do the more pricey one. You might get more out of it if you've got big tris as it seems to be tighter in the arms. Alas, I am tricep impaired so it matters not for me. Jason W. Burnell From rmanndelete@escape.ca Sat Feb 21 07:50:50 PST 1998 On 17 Feb 1998 19:16:52 GMT, "Karl Core" wrote: > > >STERNact wrote in article ><19980217173501.MAA20910@ladder03.news.aol.com>... >> What do these benching shirts give you,power, support ??? what ??? >> i read that they can increase a pro's lift by 100lbs... ! please explain >?? >> > >They basically make it so your arms are harder to push down. Kinda like a >spring action or something, or like extra strength in your deltoids. I'm >not sure how to describe it, but it sure as hell isn't giving anyone an >extra hundred pounds!!! (I wish, that way my bench would be up to par with >my squat and deadlift). > Let me try to help. A bench shirt is like a very tight t-shirt made out of a thick material which does not stretch easily. It is made in such a way that the shoulders are pulled in and held very tightly and the arms are angled forwards. This resists the downward movement of the bar, especially as your elbows drop below your shoulders. This provides some spring to aid accelration off the chest at the bottom of the lift, a point at which most are weakest. A general rule of thumb for how much assistance they give is 10% which will vary according to how strong you are off the chest to begin with and the relative strengths of the pecs, front delts and triceps. I don't think I get 10% but I will find out on Sunday. After using a shirt, most lifters are bruised around the armpits and inner arms from the pressure. Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 16:06:48 -0700 From: Deepsquatter Subject: Bench shirts ROBO wrote; >I tried on an Inzer Blast shirt today, a tight one. I felt like my >arms were going to fall asleep. I felt a lot of pressure right on the inside of my (humongous????) biceps. I felt very little across my chest, it felt like perhaps it was too high. > >Are there "shirt slippers" to get the dar thing on? Sonia was >exhausted by the time she got it on me, and it was horribly >uncomfortable. I tried lowering myself into a pushup position, and I >think I would've broken my humerus. No way could I go down, and it was >because of the pain in my inner/upper biceps. I seem to remember >someone posting some good stuff (Deepsquatter, probably) about how to >get the dern thing on. Help please? >I GOTTA bench sometime soon. Thanks guys (and gals!) Rob, here's the meat of the post. The best thing I have found is to roll the shirt up from the bottom in about 4" folds to approximately 2/3 of the way up. Then put your arms over your head. Put your arms in and work the sleeves down until they are in position. Pop your noggin in and then work the shirt over the shoulders. Work in a circular motion around your torso tugging the shirt down a few inches at a time. Make sure to get it on straight at this point because once it is on you won't be able to twist it much. Keep working around the body - keep in mind that it may help to reverse the direction i.e. clockwise to counterclockwise - tugging a few inches at a time until you get the shirt around the abdomen. Before taking it all the way down go back up to the arm pit area. There are usually some folds there. Grabbing firmly, pull these down and work around the body a few more times until you get them out. It helps to put an elbow (your helper, not you!!) in the folds when the shirt is about 1/2 way down the abdomen and use some body english to pull a tight shirt into place. You'll know it's on right when the neck hole is in place low on the neck right around the soft spot (where they'd cut you to do a tracheotomy). You don't want the neck of the shirt up really high or you'll choke yourself on descent. That's pretty much it. As far as using it goes, I use it the last 4-5 weeks generally. I don't use it for the warm ups but as you get to your work weights put it on. It will take you a few sessions to get used to it. I've noticed that it helps to focus on keeping your arms in and not letting them flare out too much or too early. Also, try to concentrate on finding the right spot on the chest - generally nipple level or lower. Jason Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:45:54 -0700 From: Robert_Graup@mail.gmosf.com (Robert Graup) Subject: Bench Press Shirts I know that powerlifters use bench press shirts to cut down on injuries and allow them to lift higher weights. Are they good or bad for us regular weightlifters? If l use these things to train with higher weights, will I be able to press more when I finally take the shirt off? In other words, do these things have any real effect on physiology or are they are crutch that once used always need to be used? If the former, then how do you use one? What mfg. makes the best (what do you look for in one -- I know some are thicker than others)? How do I figure out my size (I've read that contest shirts should be smaller, but I'm looking for a regulat workout version)? Where can I buy one (any good mail-order houses)? Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:45:16 -0600 From: Keith Hobman Subject: Bench Press Shirts At the risk of incurring the wrath of some of our big benchers I don't think you would enjoy using a bench shirt for training. They allow you to use big weights and may reduce injury chances, but really are only used by most powerlifters for competition singles. These are done at most once every 8 weeks or so. For a bench shirt to aid in lifting more weight it has to be very tight and will take at least one additional person to help you get into it. Once into it you will be very uncomfortable and won't be able to let you arms drop to your side. The shirts will normally cause some broken blood vessels in the armpit area. For a powerlifter this is a small price to pay if you can bench an additional 5 to 10% (varies with lifters), but for a 'regular' lifter I doubt you would be willing to pay it. Very few powerlifters wear their shirts for training. One notable exception is Chris Confessiore (hope I spelled that right!), and extremely powerfull bencher who always wears his in training. Having said all that, I personally think its time you quit being a regular lifter and started training for strength! You are obviously thinking 'I want to get stronger...' so take that step, find a local competition and prepare to step on the platform. You'll find your training much more focused and have a hoot competing too! So I would say .... Get a shirt! Get a suit! Get a belt and some wraps and start piling on that heavy black iron! Actually you don't need all this stuff to start training, but if you spend the money you might get committed. Inzer is the only company that makes shirts which are legal in the federation I lift in. Inzer, Titan and Marathon are the big three of suit makers, although I'ver heard Ernie Franz makes some great gear which isn't legal in CPU/IPF, where I lift. However, some of the American Federations do allow his gear. Good luck - good lifting - get STRONG!! Keith Hobman Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:10:37 -0500 From: Roger Broeg Subject: Re: Strength_List: Bench Press Shirts >HOW THE HELL DO YOU GET THESE GODD&$% MOTHER*$&&%ING THINGS ON??????????? >THEY DON'T GO ON!!!!!!!! > >- Robo, who is STILL unable to get the Inzer Blast shirt on (of course, it's >a size 50) First you need a strong partner. Then roll the torso of the shirt up. Slip your arms into the sleeves. Have your partner adjust it so the seems follow the bottoms of your triceps. Then have him help you put your head in it. Next have him pull the armpits down nice and tight. Once that is done simply roll the torso of the shirt down into place. Hint when pulling the armpits into place the best way is to have him pull out on the shirt and push it down with his elbow. That way he can lean into it and use his weight. It is much easier that way. Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:25:16 -0400 From: Wade Hanna Subject: Re: Strength_List: Bench Press Shirts -Reply Rob, your partner trying to put the shirt on you is going to lose skin on their knuckles. ;-) The first couple times anyway. Try this methodology...I will try to explain it, but it is going to be difficult to convey via this medium. 1) Holding your arms to the front try to pull the shirt as far up your arms as possible. You should be able to get at least one sleeve up on your upper arm by yourself. Have your partner get the other arm seated as close to where you want it to end up as possible. 2) Keeping your arms rotated in raise them over your head and lean against the wall.In other words place your hands on the wall above your head so you are standing at a slight angle. 3) Have your partner pull the shirt portion down over your shoulders as you duck your head through the hole. DON'T move off the wall yet, let your partner get the shirt pulled down and seated, for the most part, on your shoulders. Don't worry about getting the shirt tail pulled all the way down yet. Just get the upper part over your shoulders. Your partner will most likely need to work in a circle around your body to get it seated. This is advisable since it is easy to get the shirt twisted at this point. Once you have it seated, mostly, on your shoulders you can pull the tails down and work your arms and shoulders around to help seat it a little more. 4) Wait a couple of minutes for your body heat to warm the fabric. It is much more plyable when it is warmed up. 5) Concentrate on getting the shoulder seams up and at the same place on your shoulders. Also make sure you spend a little time pulling in the pits as this is where they tend to bunch. Have your partner work around your body pulling a couple of inches of slack at a time. If you pull from the bottom you won't seat the top around your shoulders. You can have your partner go about midway down and pull the shirt out slightly. Enough to get their elbow hooked into the fabric...this allows them to lean their bodyweight into the shirt and should be sufficient to get it finally snugged down. This isn't a bad idea to help get it initially settled before you pull the tails down in step 3. You may have to tweak a little once you start lifting. Mostly it is in the pits...I like to have my partner pull the sleeves down before each lift. They tend to ride up the arm a little during the actual bench motion. Well, I hope that makes sense. We have a pretty good pattern that we use and have put each other into our shirts. Meaning one gets his shirt on and then he helps the other get his shirt on. It is a little awkward to do this when you have a shirt on, but it can be done. Keep playing with it and you will get accustomed to how to manipulate it. Good liftin' - -wade Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:39:20 +0100 From: Andy Hawkins Subject: Bench Press Shirts - Reply Some tips I was given were - - Roll the shirt in approx. 2-4 inch folds, not as if you were rolling wraps. This can help make it easier for the person helping to roll it down. - - When you get your head and shoulders in then rotate your arms to help seat the arm/shoulders in a little more. - - It can help to roll the sleeves in half when first putting it on and then sliding them down afterwards. This on depends on the size of your arms. Good Luck Andy Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:42:08 -0600 From: Mike Armstrong Subject:Re: Bench Shirts being banned in 2000 >> I understand that as of 2000 or 2001 all bench shirts and squat/deadlift >> suits will probably be dissallowed. >> Bob Mann > >Bob, >I asked this question once before and do not want to start a flame war, >but, where have you heard that the IPF will disallow shirts and suits? I >would really like to know if there are any facts behind this rumor. Any >comments from Mike Armstrong or Mike Overdeer would be appreciated. There has been no official proposal yet to remove the shirts. The next time such a thing could be proposed is at the 2000 Congress, in November of that year, as the IPF only does rule changes every four years, in the Olympic years. I can tell you that there is a fairly strong movement internationally to get rid of the shirts, and possibly some or all of the rest of the gear, but before it can actually happen it has to be: a) proposed to the Congress, b) seconded for discussion c) voted on by the countries present following any discussion. Will it get proposed? Probably. Will it get passed? Who knows. The IPF executive doesn't just change the rules of the sport on their own. Any changes must follow the democratic path. Mike Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:55:00 -0700 From: Nancy Nutt Subject: Strength_List: Re: bench shirt - getting it on Wade said: > Rob, your partner trying to put the shirt on you is going to lose > skin on their knuckles. ;-) This is a fact. My husband and a few people who have helped get me in my shirt have scrs I think ;) Wade gave an excellent explanation and I'd like to add a few more tips. First - baby powder and lots of it. Be generous with it when applying it to your armpits, but apply it heavily to your entire upper torso and arms. It also help to shake some into the shirt itself. Also, before unrolling the shirt all the way down, pull the back soulder seam areas down and towards the center of the back simeltaneously. This motion seems to reduce the amount of bruising and pinching and helps to improve the fit. After you roll the shirt down the rest of the way, again, using your elbow this time, pull the shirt at mid back down and towards the center. I personally have found it easier to get the shirt on after getting the sleeves on and up above the elbow as far as possible and then in one movement, the lifter raises their arms as their partner pulls the shirt on over your head all in one motion. When getting the sleeves up as far as you can, try having your partner stand behind you and pull the sleeve up your arm. You can lean into them for support while they're pulling on the sleeve. There's my .02 worth. Nancy :) 8 Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:44:33 EDT From: Thomas A Anderson Subject: Strength_List: equipment all that talk about bench shirts and other equipment........ i thought i was reading an advertisement direct from 'inzer' or 'titan'. is there any money in this sort of advertising? or just free wrist wraps? at the last meet i was at i noticed a curious thing. during the bench contest, in which everyone was using >$100 double, triple-ply or denim shirts, basically people were attempting weights that were just way too heavy and unrealistic. 1st attempts passed ok. but 2nd and 3rd attempts were disastrous. 90% of the competitors were relying solely on the bench shirts to do the weight. all failures were right after the bench shirt stopped helping. about 6 inches off the chest. without the shirts, no one could even have gotten their 1st attempts. people were relying on the shirt to give them enough momentum to lock out. i fail to see how this sort of thing aids injury prevention. 1) people are trying weights their bodies are unable to support. it seems to me that that would cause injuries. 2) people are not using the shirts with injury prevention in mind but with the idea to do more weight! period! no other reason! except in rare cases, no one is using a shirt for injury prevention. tony Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:29:08 -0700 From: Daniel Yourg Subject: Strength_List: equipment and bench shirts Equipment seems to get debated oftentimes on an emotional level. On a continuum one extreme might be "Only real lifters wear equipment." On the other side might be something like "real men/women lift raw." I am trying to investigate the equipment issue/option from a subjective and practical perspective for me. I posted Jerry Tancil and Scott Taylors quotes about equipment because I found them interesting, and not paid advertisements.Yes, there are people using bench shirts who have no business in doing so. For instance young kids with underdeveloped technique who are not even interested in competing, but heard it can improve their poundage. Short of performing a survey asking people who do use equipment why they use it, I would guess that the #1 reason would be to improve performance. In order to not be at a disadvantage with their fellow competitors. This is my guess. But even if it is a secondary consideration, if equipment helps prevent injury, this interests me. Currently I am training raw, and have competed raw. Years ago I also tore a pec raw. I am about to turn 40, and am interested in injury prevention. Some people might wear the equipment for performance enhancement only, but if they train and compete smart(unlike the quoted example above) maybe they are getting a secondary benefit of injury prevention as well. Part of what got me thinking of this was the Westside Club methods. They use a bench shirt in competition, and in competition only. The contest is the only time they train a full range of motion bench press with a wide grip for a maximum single. In training they use 60% triples for speed with a variety of narrow grips on one day. On the other bench day they perform partial movements like rack lockouts, board presses, floor presses, wide grip benches for reps no lower than 6 etc. The intention is to increase bar speed in training, and to strengthen the portion of the bench the shirt does not help. Maybe the injury prevention is not their motivation, but it seems to me this is a great added benefit. The use of partial movements on one day, and training with a lighter weight incorporating narrow grips on the other day might actually help save their shoulders and pecs from injury and overuse of full range of motion with heavy poundages. Then when they max out in competiton, they use the shirt. It seems a lot us have shoulder/pec problems from benching. I am not interested in advertising equipment, but I am interested in competing and still staying as healthy as I can. This is without even discussing any possible advantages of using the suit and knee wraps for prevention of injuries. I have heard the complaints of denim shirts, double ply and triple ply equipment, groove briefs, too long wraps etc. providing too much enhancement. But lets not throw out the baby with the bath water. I post these thoughts because I am exploring this issue from a perspective of someone who previously would have liked to see all equipment banned, at least the shirts. Now I am more open minded and curious. If not interested, just delete and/or skip. "Take what you need and leave the rest." Dan Yourg Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:04:16 -0500 From: Suka Subject: Strength_List: Shirt question for Dave Tate, Deepsquatter I just recieved my first Inzer blast shirt and it's friggin tight. I did some pushups and they seemed normal, meaning no easier. I train according to "Westside" methodology and therefore I would have 1 speed day and 1 heavy day before my meet (If I worked out as usual before the meet; no days off) Will it give better support if It's broken in? How and when should I do so? I do not want to bench real heavy this Sunday but I may do Some heavy rack lockouts (6") on Wednesday. My meet is this next Sunday. Maybe I should do my Sunday workout in the shirt like Lou does on the Bench workout tape, unless he was using it for an injury. Thank you, Suka Zimmerman Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:37:48 -0800 From: Deepsquatter Subject: Re: Strength_List: Shirt question for Dave Tate, Deepsquatter I would at least take a few singles with the shirt on to get used to it. Louie's guys don't use it it training because they compete often and most are experienced with the shirt. Typically a shirt will change your groove a bit and for that reason I typically recommend that someone use it for a few sessions before hitting a meet. What I would probably do is do your speed work on Sunday as usual without the shirt and then take a few singles with the shirt on to get you somewhat used to it. I'd also skip the max effort day on wednesday and just let your body recover for the meet. On meet day, don't waste a lot of energy repping in the warmup room. Here was my warmup from last saturday; 135x8 225x3 315x1 - put the shirt on and did 365x1 then went and sat down. NOTE: I opened at 380. Normally, I would only have gone as 340 in the warmup room but I didn't feel all that great and I felt I needed to get a gauge of where I was. I figured if 365 went up slow, I'd just slip out and go have a burger. It felt ok so I stayed. :) JB Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:15:08 -0600 From: Bob Mann Subject: Re: Strength_List: Shirt question for Dave Tate, Deepsquatter Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that you can do a push up in it at all. As you get used to it you won't find it all that tight. Just wait until you get your first EHPHDBlast with a snug fit. You'll have trouble just getting a maximum width grip on the bar. My meet was back on the 7th and the marks are still on one arm. The reason to break a shirt in is to get it to stretch a bit so that it doesn't tear the fibres. You should do at least a couple of lifts in two workouts before the meet as it totally changes the groove of the lift and you will need to sort that out ahead of time. A #1 Blast shirt isn't too bad but it is still different. I would take it up to a couple of triples in the second last workout and a couple of doubles in the last workout. For myself, I would rather not lift during the week of the meet but I do know some who like to do so. Good Luck. - -- Bob Mann Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:03:27 -0800 From: Deepsquatter Subject: Re: Strength_List: Shirt question for Dave Tate, Deepsquatter Hi Derek, It depends on where you will be lifting. Lots of guys like the Denim however it is not legal in many federations. In quite a few federations (usapl, aau, uspf) you are limited to single ply poly. In any case Call Inzer at 1-800-222-6897. Personally, I'd recommend that you start with a Heavy Duty. It is a step up from the basic blast shirt. It is more comfortable (relatively) than the HPHD and it won't change your groove much so it is pretty easy to get used to. You can expect about 30 lbs added to the bottom. Forget the stories about magically adding 100 lbs to your bench. Unless you were born without pecs and you have 20" arms it's not going to happen. JB Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:15:48 -0600 From: Bob Mann Subject: RE: Strength_List: Shirt question for Dave Tate, Deepsquatter At 11:14 AM 11/20/98 -0500, Derek Minor wrote: >I am looking to buy my first bench shirt. I need some general questions >answered to help me. As in whats the best(oh boy this outta be good), How >do you get the correct sizing?, Cost, and where the heck do i get one (off >the net would be nice or Inzer's phone number etc.) >thanks for the help and advice > >Derek > If you are in the US, which you appear to be, they have a 1-800 number. Have your relawed chest measurement and your shoulder circumference ready. They have a chart for the sizing. If you plan to lose weight for a meet or want a tight fit, go one size smaller. I have used a Blast which doesn't do too much but is cheap and will get you used to the tight feeling. I have used a heavy duty Blast which does a bit more and feel more substantioal. I would probably get this one for a first shirt. I now use a #4, the Extra High Performance Heavy Duty Blast shirt which is very uncomfortable but very supportive. It completely changes the lift and isn't recommended for first timers. Top price is around $90 - $100 US I think. The cheap one is much much less. - -- Bob Mann http://www.escape.ca/~rmann Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 07:48:36 -0800 From: "Mike Trupiano" Subject: Re: Strength_List: Bench Shirt A new shirt can often feel too tight the first time. Give a few workouts before deciding, and don't wash it. It's not unusual for some to have difficulty touching their chest with less than 300lb on bar so that may be okay. The best indication that I've heard that the shirt is too tight is that you can't control the path the bar follows. You get out of the Groove easily. Make sure you have someone helping you that knows how to line up the seams and pull down the shirt to a proper fit. Without this the shirt may be really painful, as opposed to just painful, and it won't work as well. Mike Trupiano http://www.seanet.com/~mtrupi te: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:25:02 EST From: Benchprssr@aol.com Subject: Re: Strength_List: Bench Shirt Derek, I echo what others commented on the use of your bench shirt. One additional item to consider. You didn't mention which Inzer shirt you purchased. There is a big difference between the "Basic Blast" (about $50) and the top of the line (about $100). I wear mine tight but as previously mentioned I can still maintain my lifting "groove". Don't worry about the bruising it causes under the arms on lats it will go away in a few days. Take care.....bruce Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:11:10 -0600, MDT From: "FS ANDERSON SEAN K" Subject: Re: Strength_List: How RAW is RAW? More Thoughts on Bench Shirts: Over a year ago the highest bench that I got was 295. In my first PL contest, a bench press and deadlift competition, I was able to bench 300 and then 305 with an Inzer shirt (lent to to me by a friend). In the last year my bench has improved to the point that I was able to do a double of 315 in the gym without a shirt. My contest PR with a shirt is 335. I beleive that when you are able to break through a barrier that was previously a ceiling for you - as 300 lbs was for me - then it builds your self-confidence that you can go even higher. The bench shirts do give you several pounds more at a given time than you could have done raw at that same time but in the end it is the discipline, hard-work, sensible training routines, sound nutrition and rest that enable you to increase your PRs, whether with supportive equipment or raw. Most of the time in the gym you are trainign without a shirt or suit and that's where the gains are made. If your contest press is ten to fifteen pounds more than what you had done raw in the gym nonetheless the greater part of your gains and lift is due to your hard work and this is not "tainted" by the shirt. Another way of viewing supportive garements is that they are also there for your safety. The exercise physiologists out there can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're more likely to injure yourself when pushing over 90% of your contest PR and trying to set a new one. My understanding is that these garments do act to give you back support - protect the upper body and the like. I see nothing wrong with trying to protect yourself when attempting a heavy lift. Finally I doubt that today I could be benching over 300 without a bench shirt if I had not used a bench shirt to break through that 300 lb barrier a year ago or so. Just my 2 cents Sean Anderson Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:46:21 -0700 From: Jim Ferry Subject: RE: Bench shirts I have a HD blast shirt, and I was able to get it on with the help of my 120 lb. wife. It took about 15 minutes the first time, and she ripped out a lot of chest, and arm pit hair in the process. I broke out the clippers for the next time, I did not shave it clean instead I used hair clippers without a guard. It eliminated the hair problem. She can get it on me in about 10 minutes now. Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 18:19:58 EDT From: PWRFRK650@aol.com Subject: Re: Strength_List: Bench Shirt concern In a message dated 5/15/99 5:18:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cables@slip.net writes: << Mike Massey wrote: Today I used the bench press shirt for the first time. I usually can bench 450, but with a fresh bench shirt, I only benched 405:( I have a meet coming up soon, and I am very concerned. Is this type of drop in bench normal with a new shirt? If so, what do i do to fix it so i can perform in the upcoming meet? I broke it in with 3 sets of 225, and a few one reps sets with 315. Am I in trouble? Thanks >> Mike, If your planning on benching in the 4's the bar shouldnt touch till around 350, if it does the shirt is too loose. It may feel tight as hell and hard to get on but it isnt tight enough send it back and get a tighter shirt... Another point i want to make about shirts is , you cant expect the shirt to lift it for yu dont rely on the shirt for the lift. Take each weight as if yu werent wearing one, dont let the shirt lift it for yu ,yu must lift it yourself. Regards, Chris Taylor Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:11:50 -0600 From: Jim Ferry Subject: RE: How to get a bench shirt on >Question 2: Tell us how Roger and Cozy get their shirts on. What >are their 'tricks?" Here is what he taught me. Roger correct me if I missed any thing: 1. Have your helper turn the bottom 1/2 of the torso inside out, and make sure that it not bunched up. 2. Have the helper hold the shirt while you put both arms in the shirt. 3. Then before pulling it over your head you cross your arms in front while the helper pulls the arms up as far as possible, and makes sure the seams are properly aligned on the sleeves. 4. Then the helper pulls the shirt over your head, and shoulders. 5. Once the shirt is over your shoulders the helper gets a firm hold of the arm pit, or rear shoulder area of the shirt and pulls while you move your arm in big circles (this really helps to seat the shoulders). *****That pretty much covers it. The circles should be in a forward motion as this is what "seats" the shirt. Also on step 5 it helps IMMENSLY if you lean toward your helper. This creates slack in the area he/she wants to get ahold of. Roger Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:28:33 +0200 From: "Niels Staerkjaer" Try to grab onto something and then have the helper pull the sleeves back - its a lot easier for the helper. Also try experimenting with different positions for the seams. I use a Crain and I place the lower seams on the outside of the arm - the twist gives me a better performance. For a better shoulderfit try raising your arm over your head and then backward. This will reveal a lot of loose fabric which the helper then should pull down diagonal across the back. /Niels Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:49:51 -0500 From: Roger Subject: Re: Strength_List: Need help buying a bench shirt At 10:04 AM 10/20/99 EDT, you wrote: >O.K. Folks (or Ya'll -- since I'm a Texan), Before I proceed in purchasing a >bench shirt & squat suit, What are the things I need to know when I order >this? > >Like: >What dimensions will they ask for? >Should I "round down" some of the dimensions for a tighter fit? >What is a good Inzer shirt to start with? > >Thanks in advance, > >Randy Berndt The dimensions they want are all in the adds in PLUSA. As far as the shirt, as a shirt novice myself, I recommend the HD. Send you dimensions in as correct as possible, try the product when you recieve it, and if it don't fit send it back and get a different size. Just remember one thing, for this stuff to be effective it is NOT going to be comfortable. In fact, it will downright hurt. It will leave bruises. My bruises last for days. You will feel like you are getting carpet burns on the backs of your shoulders from the bench shirt. Then when you take it off you will discover you did. I can't stress this enough. Everybody I talk to trying equipment for the first time seems to think it does not fit, when in reality, it is usually not tight enough. Roger http://www.willinet.net/~broeg/index.html Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:53:53 -0500 From: "Wade Hanna" Subject: Re: Strength_List: Re: Lars' EHPHD Bench Shirt As I understood the sizing is based primarily off the chest measurement. Pretty much add 10 to your chest size and that is the shirt size. If your shoulders are really large or arms are, then they alter the size to accomodate. Just call Inzer and they will hook you up. Very helpful... - -wade Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 14:26:23 -0600 From: Bob Mann Subject: Re: Strength_List: ....GUNS.... You can find a sizing chart for Inzer products here. http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Lodge/5385/sizing.htm Basically it says to add 10" to the chest measurement and round up to the nearest even number. Then adjust for arms and shoulders. I think this is a bit on the large size as I just fit into a 50 and I have a 43" chest relaxed and a 54" shoulder girdle. Inzer told me I should be in a size 54. I got a 52 and had to take in the chest and arms on it. I think the 50 is going to be good. Munchkin? At 12:12 PM 3/5/00 -0800, Dean Reece wrote: >World Class Bencher and alleged munchkin Bob Mann wrote: > > >The sizing charts give you an estimate based on chest size and tell you to > >size up or down for large or small shoulders and arms. > > >Where are these sizing charts? I have yet to see one! What are the >formulas that them Inzer gals use when you call with your >measurements? Does anybody have one of these charts? Should just be a >simple formula, right? > >Dean - -- Bob Mann Winnipeg, Canada. http://members.home.net/bobmann From csiddell@aol.com Tue Mar 28 06:15:43 PST 2000 >Has anyone here ever used a bench shirt? I am going to get one for a >powerlifting meet. I agree with gymrat. I also use the super bench shirt (used just a blast shirt for years and there is no comparison, actually had to learn to lift with my new shirt, put me in a different groove). I however do not train with mine, I find it too hard to get into and only use it two weeks out from the meet. I know some that will swear that it gives them 10-20 pounds on their bench. For me it really doesn't add any weight to my lift(I'd like to see an empty shirt on the bench lift anything HA!) but keeps me tight and does make the weight lighter off my chest which is where I stick. Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:25:47 -0500 From: Bob Mann Subject: Re: Strength_List: first time in a bench shirt At 06:18 PM 7/31/00 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:36:06 -0500 >From: "Helfst, Bob H." >Subject: Strength_List: first time in a bench shirt > >Sorry for the rookie question on Monday morning. >Last night I finally got my HD blast shirt on with exhaustive help from >my wife and kids. Since I've never had one on, I'm not sure if it was >seated correctly. I tried getting on the bench but couldn't get the bar >anywhere near my chest or get the bar path anywhere near my groove. This >morning my armpits are lovely shades of purple and blue, LOL. Deodorant >application was no fun!! Been there, done that etc. Wait until you have semi-permanent scars. >If I can get it on at all is it the right size? There are some guys who can get you into a shirt that is too small but your wife and kids? Nope. If they could get you into it then it fits. Might even end up being too big. (Just imagine the pleasure) >Will it stretch a little if I get it back on a couple more times before >Tommy's meet on Aug. 12? Probably. Just get it on and let it warm up to your body then pull it down some more. Taking a few reps in it will also stretch it out. We usually wet the front and seams of ours before doing reps to allow the fibres to slide over each other more easily. Helps the shirt last longer and reduces blowouts. >Does the fact that I'm primarily a chest bencher (got some elbow spurs >and arthritis) affect how the shirt will function with my groove? My >elbows tend to ride a little wider than most benchers. To some extent yes. FWIW I think the Inzer shirts do okay for wide elbow benchers. You will have to physically pull the bar to your chest to get it into the right position. Don't just let it find its own path or it will pop right out of your groove. You want to bring the bar through the path of most resistance and push it back up the same way to get the most out of the shirt. - -- Bob Mann Winnipeg, Canada. http://members.home.net/bobmann Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:13:42 EDT From: TSteve4220@aol.com Subject: Re: Strength_List: first time in a bench shirt First don't apologize, these are good questions. You need to use the shirt a few more times to get used to it before the meet. You noticed how it changed your groove, that is one of the things that you need to adjust to. Also, I don't know how much you are benching, but you may need to pull the bar down to your chest. The shirt may prevent it from touching. It take 300 lbs. for mine to touch without pulling it. Last of all, if you couldn't get it on at all, it would do you no good. It should take about 5 min. to get on and then you will need to do a couple of warmup reps to seat it. Then the shirt will need to be pulled down again. You want to avoid bunching of the material in the arm pits and it should be down as far as possible. Any other questions, feel free to ask. Tom Stevenson Wheatfield,NY Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:17:40 -0500 (CDT) From: nccozine@webtv.net (Noble Cozine) Subject: Re: Strength_List: first time in a bench shirt Bob, the shirt is probably just right. He's a few pointers on putting it on. First put some baby powder on your arms ,shoulders,and pits. This will help the shirt slide on and reduse some of the black and blue marks. Next make sure the arm seams are lined up (on the under side of your arms).Slide one arm in.Work the sleeve up your arm until it's over your elbow.Do the same on the other arm.Slip your head threw. Then work the shirt down around your body.We usually work around the person.After the shirt is down have your helper reach into the arm pit area and pull down while you are swing your arm around in a big circle Kinda like doing the backstroke.This will seat the shirt.One little trick is to bend over side ways to the side yourhelper is going to pull down on. this will give a little slack for them to get a hold of.Repeat on the other side.Then lean forward and have them pull some on the front.Then some on the back. Wear the shirt 5 minets then have them pull on it some more. Now your ready to try to bench.After the first rep have them pull on it some more. You may have to pull the bar to your chest.It may not go the first few times you try.Add some weight and try again. One thing you might want to do is do some negitives in the power rack.Just lower the bar to pins set at chest height. Its going to feel weired at first.But once you get usd to it ,it will be worth the trouble. Hope this helps. Cozy Cozine Winfield,Iowa Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 07:00:24 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Shafer Subject: Re: Bench shirt welts From a tight, basic Inzer Blast shirt, I got a 41 lb boost in my last meet. Should have had 60+ lbs, but I couldn't lock out my 3rd attempt. Read "tight" as extremely painful (bruising/blood), and took 10 minutes to get on with help. YMMV, Scott Shafer Converse, TX --- Roger wrote: > At 09:16 PM 11/15/00 EST, you wrote: > >If someone is only getting around 15 lbs from their > shirt, either the shirt > >is way too loose or their tricep are a big time > weak point. > > > >--Eric Adolph > > > > Wouldn't that depend on what kind of shirt you are > using, and how much you > benchpress in the first place? I have heard that you > can expect 10% from a > EHPHD. That means a 25lb gain for a guy benching > 250. If this is true, > would not 15 to 20 lb gain be about right for that > same guy using an HD? > > > Roger Broeg > AAU Powerlifting Iowa State Chairman > http://members.home.net/gymrat45/IowaAAU.html > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:06:24 -0600 From: "Matthew R Kroczaleski" Subject: Re: Bench Shirt Fit Christopher, I have a lot of experience with denim (single, double and a double reinforced with canvas) and recently I've also been experimenting with single ply poly shirts (both Crain and Inzer) in preparation for some USAPL meets. If I had to pick out one key element in proper shirt fit I would say to pay attention to at what point the shirt seems to be taking the most stress. What I mean by this is where is the area of greatest stretch on the shirt. If the shirt fit is most optimal for you then you should feel the greatest stretch (i.e. pressure) from the shirt across your chest at roughly the same place the bar makes contact in the bottom position. Granted you will have a lot of pinching in the arm pits and around the back of shoulders that will feel very uncomfortable but I'm not talking about pain but rather tightness. I think this is something that not many lifters think about or possibly don't notice but I believe it is a key element to getting the most benefit out of your bench shirt. Personally, I have lat structure that is somewhat wide at the top (right underneath my arms) and consequently I have a significant amount of trouble getting shirts to sit low enough on me. They always seem to get "hung up" on my lats (which sounds like what you're describing with the Inzer denim). I have witnessed a noticeable difference in shirt performance by the shirt being as little a 1/4-1/2" higher or lower on my chest. With a single ply Frantz denim I have seen a 30lb loss in the same shirt in 5 minutes by simply having it sitting slightly higher on my chest. At first this baffled me until I realized what was going on. You could not see the difference by looking at me in the shirt but I could feel the difference when the bar was at my chest. When it wasn't on properly I would feel the greatest stretch across my upper chest rather than the bottom of chest/upper abs. Sometimes this can be caused by too tight of a shirt or just a bad shirt design. If the rules of the federation in which you're lifting permit it and the shirt you're using is overly tight try this recommendation given to me by Dave Tate of Westside. Cut the back of the shirt in half vertically. If you have a velcro backed shirt just cut out the top few inches that are connected. When I did this recently to one of my double denims it performed better than ever and also made getting in and out of the shirt a piece of cake. I noticed at the APF Nationals this summer that Chris Taylor doesn't even really have a back on his shirt at all and he's one of the top benchers around. What I'm talking about here is with the assumption that you are using a shirt that is sized properly. I would define this as in the case of a denim or canvas shirt you should not be able to touch the bar to your chest with anything significantly lower than your opener and for poly the shirt should be of a sufficient tightness that it is near tearing when the bar is at your chest. I have heard people say that they had trouble touching in a poly but have yet to experience that myself. I believe with bench shirts that tighter is always better as long as the shirt is not drastically altering your natural groove (I don't feel this to be true in regards to squat suits and especially deadlift suits as groove changes here are much more damaging). A lot of lifters think there shirt is very tight because they have bruises and the shirt is very uncomfortable. This is by no means a sufficient measure of shirt tightness. I have a denim shirt that fit like this when I weighed 205 lbs. I now weigh 255lbs and I'm still using the same shirt (although the arm size was enlarged slightly and the back is cut out it, oh and I also blew it out once). Needless to say, the shirt works much better now than ever. Sorry for a little rambling here but hope this helps! Matt Kroczaleski Message: 18 Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 13:00:46 -0500 From: "Mike Kelly" Subject: BP Shirt Fit? I wore my shirt yesterday to get some practice in it for an upcoming meet and found it very difficult to use. I have pressed 250 raw and 250 in the shirt took me about 5 seconds. I have also 2 board pressed 275 with a pause and floor pressed 260, so this doesn't seem right to me. I remember reading that it was important for the shirt to fit tightest across the point where you touch. My shirt seems to be the tightest about an inch ABOVE my nips, not below where I touch on the advice of everyone here. Also, I can fit a finger under the sleeve, although not real easily, and I remember reading that one shouldn't be able to do that. Any ideas, tips, etc. at all?????? Should it fit differently? Thanks, Mike Kelly Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 16:33:15 -0600 From: Roger Subject: Re: BP Shirt Fit? Mike...here is what I learned about using a shirt. I am not near as knowledgable in this stuff as most here though. When I first started using a shirt, it was easier at the bottom, so I tended to relax a bit coming out of the hole while the shirt. When I learned to EXPLODE as hard as I could, while the weight was light, I started getting an extra 20lbs from my shirt. The speed you are able to build up coming off the chest will aid you through your sticking points the rest of the way up. This is where the speed work really pays off. Just my unqualified opinion. Roger Broeg http://members.home.net/gymrat45/HomePage.htm Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:20:03 -0500 From: "Wade Hanna" Subject: Re: bench shirt question Bob, We have got a pretty decent routine going and have even put each other (my brother and I) in our shirts at the same time. You'll definitely need a partner to do it though. Optimally, you have two people...one for each side. When you pull the shoulders it is much easier if you have someone on each side to seat them at roughly the same time. It makes for far less needling around to even them up. 1) Seat the sleeves as high up your arms as you can, both sides...the neck/body of the shirt should be slightly choking you since you have the sleeves basically all the way on already. 2) Get the bottom seam over the shoulders and down to mid torso quickly so you can work the shoulder area on. Your partner needs to move quick here, once the bottom seam is over you can pull big chunks of the shoulder/chest region over the head and around the scapula (make sure you don't lose the bottom edge though...that is a pain to fish that out if it rolls under). Just get the shoulders down and pretty much even first (so your head is through the neck and you can breathe). Most important thing here is to make sure the sleeves are all the way up on the arm. Once you seat the shoulders you won't be pulling the sleeves up your arm anymore. The sleeves need to be pretty much ON prior to taking the shirt all the way over your head and settling the shoulders. 3) Once here, pull the shoulder area down as much as you can...little bits at a time working all the way around so it goes on evenly (make SURE the side seams are even...look from the front, a twisted shirt will mess you up). Once they are as far as you can pull like this, have your partner grab the material by the shoulder (back side, almost on top of your shoulder) and get a 'good' grip. He'll pull down and back (mostly a static hold) while you "swim" your arm up and around to driving your shoulder forward. This will really seat the shoulders up and back on your delts pretty fast. He'll have to really get a grip and you 'swim' kind of slow so YOU don't pull the material out of his hands, but it seats the shoulders better than anything else we have done to date. 4) Once the shoulders are settled you can work the rest of the material down in a circular motion around the body. Little bit at a time. Once it is down, sit for a minute or two and let the material warm up. 5) Stand facing a wall with your arms on the wall. Lean into the wall a little like you are doing a push up and while you hold that, have you partner work the middle upper back down and the shoulders some more. You can sort of roll your shoulders around a bit while he is doing that to help seat and slide the material. 6) At this point it should be pretty much on. Have your partner go about mid torso and drive an elbow into the material...you lean away from him (front, back, sides) while he drives his elbow down into the material. You can really seat the 'body' of the shirt down nice and snug like this. Some pulls right up in the arm pits to get any excess material out of the pit, more elbow drives and your golden. Not the most comprehensive write up about it, but hopefully the main points come through. We have been very happy with this sort of progression. Our shirst are ON in about 5 minutes and seated extremely well. HTH and good liftin' -wade Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:39:49 -0500 From: Dmitry Voronov Subject: Re: bench shirt question I'd like to add a few points here. First, to make the person helping you hate you less, roll the body of the shirt up to the sleeves. Another point is about using the shirt. I have an Inzer EHPHD and by putting it on with the logos on the brachialis (on the outside of the arm), I got next to nothing out of the shirt. Now, before we put it on, I turn my elbows in and force the logos to be closer to the front. I wouldn't recommend your wife being your helper. If the shirt is a proper fit and unless she is a strong girl, the following things will (or are damn likely to) happen: 1) She will not be strong enough to put it on completely (huge difference) 2) She will break a lot of nails 3) She might not be strong enough to take it off The last point is quite annerving, especially if the shirt is stuck in a position where it's choking you. When I first got my HD Erector shirt, I thought it wouldn't be as bad as my bench shirt. I couldn't get it off and I ended up pissing off my dog so it would bite it and play tug of war with me. These are some damn strong shirts, I tell ya! It is a pretty comical experience (nearly as much so as how you look when you finally have it on). I think the only reason we don't have a website with photos of people and their bench shirts for comic relief is that the people who would take these photos have worn one at one point and they feel the pain. Have fun, Dmitry Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:59:03 -0600 From: "bobc" Subject: I got the new bench shirt blues (sorry long goofy post) 1st I want to say thanks to Wade and Dmitry for their excellent instruction's on the art of putting on a bench shirt it made things much simpler. I have used th eshirt twice both times with much less then spectacular success. on my first attempt it was after a squat workout and I just couldn't wait (yea what a idiot) I warmed up pretty easy put 315 on the bar (my best bench without a shirt is a 375 touch and go 315 with a pause which might indicate where i am weak) I barely was able to get the bar to my chest but when i went to lift it it went all over, no groove at all and very little control. It reminded me of when i first started lifting. It was ugly but I got it went to 375 (I don't know why i do shit like this) If not for a damn good spot i would of gotten hurt again no control at all on the lift. Monday was my bench day. good strong warmups I was set to do. 3x3x320 flat 3x3x320 board press 3x3x320 decline 3x3x 280 extra wide grip. I again had no control when moving the weight tried three times finally backed down to 295 took the shirt off and finished the workout. I don't know if i am just extra slow or if I am doing something wrong. Or what. I am now unsure of what to do to keep trying the shirt or maybe continue most of my workout without the shirt and try some singles at the end of the workout. bobc Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:04:05 -0500 From: Dmitry Voronov Subject: Re: I got the new bench shirt blues (sorry long goofy post) One trick you might want to try to get the bar down easier is to raise your head. This will rotate your upper body and lower the bar without actually lowering your upper arms that much. Then as you press, drive the head back into the bench as you explode. Don't get frustrated. Just wait and keep practicing. Anyone who tells you they got it right on their first try is a fool, a liar or a freak. Everyone gets a total shock when the the support goes away. One thing you must do out of the whole is press the bar yourself. At first, most people let the shirt get the weight up, then the shirt goes away and they're screwed. They start doing all kinds of funky yoga on the bench to try to get the weight moving again. It will be tough but you have to learn to lift with the shirt as if there is no shirt. Another reason you could be all over the place is you're trying to let the shirt decide on the groove. You can't let this happen. Train your upper back (rotator cuff, lats etc) until you can force the bar to stay in your groove. I can't count how many times my rotators have let me down by letting my elbows come out and the weight would just stop. Also, stronger lats will enable you to get the bar down to your chest faster (now you know how people get redlighted on 700+ benches when the weight doesn't touch). Also, those sets that you list (flat, board, decline, ex wide), did you do all those with the shirt? If so, then don't. Only put the shirt on when you are practicing to get used to it or if you want to get an idea for your opener so obviously, only wear it when you're doing flat bench, with competition grip. The whole point of the board press is to strengthen the area where the shirt does nothing. Why wear the shirt while doing this? I don't know what kind of shirt you have (I have a level 4 single ply poly) but even the guys with the double denims (namely Westside) insist that you get your shirt bench stronger by making your raw bench stronger. It's the same reason why they don't recommend doing decline. Training with the shirt on doesn't make you a lot stronger and it gives you a false sense of progress by letting you lift more weight than normal. Good luck, Dmitry Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:30:49 -0500 From: "Wade Hanna" Subject: Re: I got the new bench shirt blues (sorry long goofy post) Bob, For what it is worth, I think Dmitry gave you the best advice...don't let the shirt dictate your groove. That is the biggest pitfall of using a shirt IMO. As soon as you start your lift, you feel the stretch and the shirt taking some of the load. Problem comes in that you let it take it...and then neglect to take it back. When I put on a shirt I "try" to keep myself in 'max' mode. Meaning set up as tight as you would for a maximum attempt and control your groove as tightly as you would a maximum attempt. Otherwise the shirt starts to dictate where the bar goes and basically your lift is over. I would say devote your workout to shirt work. Do a warmup and then do your singles when you are fresh. Be as mentally sharp as you can to get the most feedback and adjustment to the way the shirt works. After you hit a few singles and have a better understanding of how it pulls/stretches/rebounds then do your shirtless workout. You are close to a meet correct? You need to maximize your comfort level in the shirt if you want to make it work for you. Keep the singles in a range that you have to work "some" for, but be assured you will get them. Build confidence and familiarity in the shirt and how it works. Your strength is all but built at this point...a little maintenance will keep it there, but the familiarity of using the shirt will pay a bigger, and quicker dividend at this point in the game (is kind of a one time deal, so take advantage of it! LOL). A couple quick thoughts on adjusting to the shirt. 1) Relish the stretch...don't shy away from where you feel the shirt stretching around you. If you feel it binding up on your arms and your chest...push into them and make that sucker stretch even more! Chances are, that is the groove you want and that is where you will have the best leverages and most benefit. I tend to get an aggressive attitude with my shirt (sounds silly I know). As I descend with the bar I can feel it binding across my chest...I push my chest higher and into it! Basically dictate to the shirt that it works for you...you don't work for it. 2) Work your shoulders back into the shirt on the descent. You'll probably feel it biting into your shoulder and armpit...go with it. Keep descending and increase that pinch til' she hits your chest. You are now working the shirt. It sucks initially, but you'll get accustomed to it (you really will and it isn't all that bad...the initial shock of it is the worst) and in a very short time you won't even notice those pinches and such. 3) Draw your elbows in slightly prior to starting your descent. Once in, keep them there and "row" the bar down...not literally since it will come down, but think of bringing it down by "rowing" it to you. Make sure you lever your elbows into you and under the bar...if they flare out then you lose a great deal of stretch across the chest. Probably the hardest thing to do with a shirt is keep your elbows down and in. This will work the shirt though and it may feel like you are pushing towards your feet some. All in all, you just gotta' play. Whatever you do though, don't shy away from where the shirt stretches. Work right back into those stretch points and make it stretch even more. The shirt can actually guide you where you are strongest, but you have to work against the material and you have to maintain "tight" all the way through the motion. Last quick point...once you decide to push...PUSH!! Push all the way to the top. It will be a completely new timing on the motion and your body will be out of sorts at first. Go for broke though when you decide to push it up and go ALL the way to the top. Second big pitfall is to realize how quick it starts (with sub max weights) and you let off. The bar climbs up over your face and you realize the load of doo doo you just put yourself in. Treat any shirt lift like a max and you will be a few steps ahead of the game on adjusting. Hope this helps in some way, good liftin' -wade Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:28:35 -0500 From: Dmitry Voronov Subject: Re: I got the new bench shirt blues (sorry long goofy post) Nice one Wade! I didn't have anyone to tell me what the shirt is supposed to feel like and when I first tried it, I damn near threw it away right there in the gym. I couldn't even lift as much as I did raw. All I was trying to do is ignore the pain. The shirt would lift the weight up a few inches and that's all she wrote. Believe it or not, as horrible as it feels now, with time, you won't even really feel it. All you'll think about is getting that big PR. One thing that is your best training partner is a camcorder. You can get the most competent spotter and tell him what to look for but you are the only one who knows what happend at every stage in the lift. Sometimes I take the video home and replay it a few dozen times to see exactly what I was doing [wrong] and sometimes I review it right after the lift and try again. This is the only way I ever learned what Westside keeps talking about in the squat. I thought I had my form nailed but after taping myself, I realized I was squatting the way I used to, but with a wide stance. Whatever you do, don't get frustrated. Keep working on it. Learning to use a shirt is as much a skill as the lift itself (if not more so). Now you are starting to get the feel for why, most if not everyone who has used a shirt don't feel it degrades the lift. I think it just changes it. Like Louie once said, "I have a triple denim with a vile of test on top of it lying on a bench in the back. I've yet to see it lift a pound." Best of luck, Dmitry