From: horwath@rtsg.mot.com (George Horwath) Newsgroups: misc.fitness Subject: Re: Squats Date: 23 Mar 94 16:13:46 GMT jp writes: >>David Will writes: >> >I'd like to add to this question. At what amount of weight >> >should a lifter doing squats worry about wearing a belt? >> Never too early. You only have one back. Buy a belt now. >> Don't wory if someone thinks it's not enough weight to justify it. >>I have just added squats to my workouts and am now up to >>about 150# (including the bar, about 200#). It's probably >>time for me to think about using a belt. >>?? Would someone provide a paragraph or two on the proper >> usage of a belt (tightness, position, recommended width >> as they come in several sizes, etc.)? >>?? What other exercises would be helped by a belt? I see >> lots of people in my gym wearing belts as if it was part >> of their regular workout outfit, but what, other than squats, >> require one? >>thanks >Belts are absolutely essential for squats and they add considerably to one's >lift. By wearing the belt _fairly_ tight (a subjective term, I know, but >it's difficult to describe without a demonstration), the lifter can press >his abdominals out into it and employ the leverage to drive the barbell up. >How tightly? Well, you should still be able to breathe comfortably and >the blood still circulate unimpeded throughout your upper body; 'firm but >not suffocating' approximately sums it up. A belt will also, in more >extreme cases, prevent the lifter's guts from 'spilling out' during >the upward drive. Chronic abdominal distension can be potentially >quite dangerous. This is something I have a question about. Isn't this a matter of how the squats are being used? I mean, if one is interested in doing one rep maxes, etc. a belt would be a good idea and for adding to the lift, a belt is "required" as much as a lifting suit would be. BUT, if one is interested only in adding squats to a weight routine using higher reps (i.e. 3 sets of 10, 1 set of 20 , etc.) - which is how the question was originally posted (??) - is a belt really necessary? The reason I ask is because I've also read things such as the following quote by Randy Strossen: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking around in the gyms and magazines today, you would probably draw two conclusions about lifting belts: 1)They were probably invented by powerlifters for use on deadlifts and squats, but... 2)Their true value is as a fashion accessory for stylish trainers. Surprise, surprise: Lifting belts actually came into use on continentals*, and have their most widespread value in overhead lifts, especially in the now-extinct Olympic press. *The Continental is a technique for getting the bar onto one's shoulders by pausing on the way up - as opposed to lifting it "cleanly" to the shoulders. In the Continental, the bar's last resting place before the final pull to the shoulders was on the buckle of one's lifting belt. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Any thoughts? -gh ------------------------------ Thanks in advance. ------------------------------ From: kalminf Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 Subject: Re: Belts & High School training & Polar Bears John/"the Dad" (John Cuevas) wrote asking about proper time and manner to wear lifting belts... I usually read w/interest most posts and I say nothing but this one rung a bell. I'd be rich if I got a dime for every weekend warrior that stepped in the Gym wearing the lastest trend in bodybuilding wear! If I'd just started out lifting, then you can be sure I ain't gonna wear some 'golds gym' shirt, or tight spandex shorts revealing my nutts and etc,. especially since I might not look the 'look' of a seasoned bodybuilder. I wonder do people realize that wearing those stripped spandex unitards "advertised in the mags" don't look appealing when you have a gut, and no SHAPE! Anyway... I see guys doing bench or preacher curls wearing their belt! What for? Personally, I only wear the belt when I'm doing heavy squats. I don't wear it when warming up for my first set, its only during 225lbs and up, do I even consider the belt. I think its subconsciously more so for my peace of mind, and strict form, rather than preventing my back from "popping out". One of the first signs that some guy doesn't know what the hell he's doing in the gym, other than 'hangin' out, is when I see him walkin' 'round the gym w/ a belt on! And for those of you that "think" you're doing anything worthwhile "wrapping" and "unwrapping" your knees between each set of squats, you're probably suffering more from bad form of locking your knees while doing seated presses and hack squats. I constantly lift Kamikaze heavy, and I don't need knee wraps, and good form goes a helluva long way! I'm sorry John, this may not have answered you question, but I just got pissed off remembering how many times, some 'ill-informed' person took up a whole bench doing wrist curls, or some guy weighing a 'buck & a quarter' saying he has 9 more sets of bench to do, before he's finished! Have these people been watching "Pumping Iron V: For Whom the Dumbell Tolls?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 From: jan (Jan Wescott) Subject: Re: Weight-lifting belts Thought I would take a stab at this one: > John Cuevas - John "The Dad" writes: > What's the story on weight lifting belts? > > Why should you and shouldn't you wear them? > Who should and shouldn't wear them? > When should you and shouldn't you wear them? > How should you and shouldn't you wear them? > What's the difference bewteen leather and other belts? > > Is there a particularly good belt to look for? This is a sore point with me (no pun intended) as I see so many folks wandering around the gym with a fairly loose weight belt slung around their waists, as a talisman. I don't know WHY I find that annoying, but I do. I suppose it is because they seem to believe that the simple act of buying a belt and putting it on will protect them, magically, from back injury! In fact, I believe they are in potentially more danger from relying on an incorrectly fitted belt. My understanding of WHEN to use a belt is if you are putting pressure on the spine, particularly downward pressure, but also in moves such as SL-Deadlifts and, of course, deadlifts, strap it on tight. Overhead lifts, such as militaries cry out for a belt. The belt, to be of any use must be TIGHT, it must be tight enough to make it uncomfortable, i.e., you tighten it, do the set, and instantly loosen it, while simultaneously breathing a sigh of relief. Leather belts are stiffer, and thus probably better, I have never felt that the velcro contraptions are stiff enough to do you much good (some have really cool on/off mechanisms, but some are just a mess of straps...) Women have a tougher time of it - Women and men are shaped differently (duh), and I think that all belts are currently made for men. I have a 4" leather belt with a bit of padding inside, that gives it a 'waist' - thus when I strap it on tight, it FEELS tight, not just at the edges. I feel pretty well 'supported'. I would like to see a combination of leather/velcro belts - something that you can get on, get tight EASILY, and LOOSEN easily. The belts made from leather are so stiff it is hard to do up the buckle as tight as you'd like until they are 'broken in'. [I have a leather velcro belt from Everlast. I'm happy with it. -MTS] I think people don't like putting them on really tight because their guts hang over the edge :) if they have ANY bodyfat at all (mine sure does, but I have ceased to care about that). By all means, do not let the belt give you a false sense of security - they do help, but I think the best help they provide is to remind you to maintain good form. (Cutting into your waist like they do when correctly worn, keeps rigid form in the forefront of your mind :) _ _| ~-. Jan Wescott \, *_} Deep in the Heart... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Hooper Subject: Re: Weight-lifting belts Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 Re the various comments on using belts as a talisman: >One of the first signs that some guy doesn't know >what the hell he's doing in the gym, other than 'hangin' >out, is when I see him walkin' 'round the gym w/ a belt >on! I tend to wear mine for about half of the workout. It has nothing to do with being a talisman - I just wear it loosely so I don't leave it behind when I move from squat rack to bench etc etc. I only tighten it when I'm doing heavy squats. So there is a good reason to wear a belt apart from just 'not knowing what the hell you're doing'! It's hard enough to remember towels (which are mandatory at my gym) and the drink bottle if you are feeling pretty whacked after a heavy session of squats. Regards, Todd ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Oct 94 From: Derek Beattie Subject: Re: Weight-lifting belts Dennis asked: ^Why are powerlifter belts usually straight 4 to 6 inches wide ^all the way around, and body builders belts thick in the back ^to 6 inches and narrow in the waist 1/2 to 2 inches? Both ^groups basicly use the same exercises and body movements? In my humble (but never-the-less correct) opinion :-) Power lifting belts provide more support and lead to heavier lifts; however, they also restrict breathing. This makes them less suitable for the higher rep training bodybuilders tend to engage in. Best regards, Derek Beattie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 Yeah, I used to think how silly it was when I saw guys wearing belts out of ignorance just to make a fashion statement or to testify to their lifting prowess. But I am currently one who now wears a belt for just about every exercise for a different reason. Three months ago I had a hernia operation--not traceable to not wearing a belt, since hernias are probably inevitable if one has a congenital abnormality in the abdominal musculature--and I don't happen to want to have another one (expensive enough, down-time, etc.). Nonetheless I do want to continue lifting as I am certain you can all understand, so I wear a belt as a precaution during all lifting since _any_ lifting can put pressure on the abdominal walls. So when you see someone wearing a belt please don't jump to the conclusion that they are ignorant (even though the majority may be). Some of us wear them for other reasons. David ------------------------------ Date: 30 Oct 94 From: John Subject: Re: Weight-lifting belts Thanks in particular to Derek, Kalmin and Jan (Did I leave someone out? If I did, thank you too). As usual, this list really has good people with good experience. I really appreciate the logic and explanation behind the responses. Since I am still in the beginner range myself, I think I'll save my pennies and not buy a belt for a while (like not today). I do feel the compression when I do a military press, so eventually I'll get one (and probably sooner than I think), but I'll only use it as needed and tight - as y'all recommended. Thanks again. John/"the Dad" (John Cuevas) ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Weights-lifting belts Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 From: Dennis Bednarek commented on the use of weight lifting belts; lower back support and prevention of a hernia were two reasons he mentioned. I recently used my lifting belt when my physical therapists suggested it's use when I had some sciatic problems, it seemed to help, but I discontinued using the support when the sciatic problem cleared up. >From personnal experience and from everything I've read, unnecessary use of a lifting belt only leads to weaker supporting back muscles. I think most of the time in the gym people wear lifting belts because they think they look good- wearing your lifting belt while doing bench presses or other exercises when back support isn't needed accomplish little. If a doctor or physical therapists suggests using a lifting belt for some injury then by all means follow their advice- if your wearing the lifting belt because it looks good or it's the trendy thing everybody is doing in your gym you would probably be better off without it. Steve Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 From: (Lisa Santoro) Subject: Re: Weight-lifting belts Hey all, after a brief hiatus, I am back on-line! I've kept in touch with the list through another kind subscriber who printed the back issues out for me, so I'm up to snuff. I do want to comment about weight belts. I've seen this discussion come up periodically on this list, and I'll stick my 2 cents in once again: weight belts are mostly unnecessary. Of course during heavy squats (of all kinds, sumo, hack etc.), deadlifts, it is a good idea to wear a belt. By wearing a belt all the time, the abs don't get the workout they should. The idea of wearing a belt at all is to increase the internal ab pressure which protects the lowerback. The belt itself does not protect you. Also, my 2cents, leather belts have a tendancy to stretch loosen up over time, I find the velcro strap-em-in jobs much better for the purpose. Happiness and strength to all, Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 From: (Cortney Vargo) Subject: Re: Weight-lifting belts Lifting belts work by giving the muscles of the torso something to press against thereby stabilizing the trunk and spine. It's not directly "supporting the spine" or "putting pressure on the spine" but it just pressurizes the back and abdomen which in turn stabilizes. It has to be pretty tight to be effective. I also think it's funny to see the people at the gym who put the belt on when they get there, and take it off when they leave. I push/pull some pretty heavy stuff, especially for a woman, and I ONLY wear my belt for heavy deadlifts and squats. I'm amazed at Powerlifting meets how many competitors wear them for bench...in that position they really can't do much but keep your shirt down! I think the greatest belts are the lever belts...I got mine from Elite. It's a standard 4" wide leather power belt with a lever contraption at the front rather than a buckle. You put the prongs of the lever into the other end of the belt and crank it over. It takes me 3 seconds to put it on and I don't need any help to get it tight enough. The drawback is power belts are expensive: anywhere from $40 to $100, but well worth the expense. If you are training for strength and power, you really should have a power belt that is wide all the way around and doesn't taper in the front. You want this maximum belt surface (without compromising movement) to press your torso against. Once it's broken in, the wide belts can be very comfortable. I kind of think the tapered belts are of minimal worth, at least for my needs. Hope this helps. ............................................................ Cortney Vargo ............................................................ Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 From: "Anne M. Candreva" Subject: Re: Weight-lifting belts Jan Wescott says: > My understanding of WHEN to use a belt is if you are putting > pressure on the spine, particularly downward pressure, but > also in moves such as SL-Deadlifts and, of course, deadlifts, > strap it on tight. Overhead lifts, such as militaries cry out > for a belt. Is this the general consensus? The thought of using a belt for SL-Deadlifts has me cringing -- wouldn't it pinch your abdomen something fierce? On the other hand, I'd like to protect my back, and will put up with the discomfort if that's the smart thing to do. Now, Good Mornings are very similar to SL-Deadlifts -- should a belt be worn for them as well? Also, do others wear belts for military presses? How about military presses with dumbbells rather than a bar? Or does that make a difference, belt-wise? I used to wear a belt solely for squats. I had to stop squatting for lack of a spotter. I've just started back squatting using a Smith machine. Since I'm just starting back, I'm using lower weight until I'm sure of my form. Should I use a belt when I get to heavier weight? Thanks, Anne M. Candreva ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 Subject: Re: Weight-lifting belts Due to the "latest thinking", I am not wearing my weight belt nearly as much as I used to. However, neither the 4" or 6" belt seems to support me during the "sled" leg press, deadlifts, etc. where I need to be supported - the lower back, about 4" down from my waist. I saw someone at a gym last week who had a special type of belt that seemed to cover that area. I should have talked to the guy to find out where he got the belt. Any suggestions? ------------------------------ From: (Blaine Hufnagle) Subject: Re: Weight Belt -- why Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 04:09:02 GMT In article >On 23 Oct 1995, Brian Maxewell - 2795078 wrote: > >> I relize this question is very basic, but what does the weight belt do? >> Someone told me while benching straight up while in the sitting position >> (whatever this exercise is called) is when you would wear it??? That's called a military press. >belt, I would say it's to keep you from breaking your back when you try >to do some workouts that would make your arch your back if the exercises >are not done properly. Not really. The purpose of a weight belt is to increase what's called Intra-Abdominal Pressure, or IAP. A high IAP will stabilize the lower back when doing heavy weights. The belt essentially gives you something to push against; it can be though of (kind of) as converting a compressive load (the weight) into a tensile load (taken by the belt) much the same way a tire does. Using it to keep your from arching your back is using bad form... Use your back to keep from arching your back... Exercises for which it's good: Squats Deadlifts Benches (for some) Military presses (for some) Cheat-curls (NOT regular ones) It's also good from which to hang a walkman, which is why I used to wear mine during my entire workout. But I'd only cinch it down when I was actually under the weight. Otherwise it should be in the first or second hole, and pretty loose. >wear a belt when doing them because you may tend to arch your back and >raise your feet off the floor, and that can lead to bad things. This is plain bad form. Lower the weight some and do them correctly. Both your lower back AND your shoulders will thank you for it. If lowering the amount of weight sounds bad, then leave your ego at the door where it belongs, not on the gym floor. -blaine From: Lyle McDonald Subject: Re: Weight Belt -- why Date: Sun, 29 Oct 95 12:16:07 -0500 Blaine Hufnagle writes: >>> I relize this question is very basic, but what does the weight belt do? >It's also good from which to hang a walkman, which is why I used to wear mine >during my entire workout. But I'd only cinch it down when I was actually >under the weight. Otherwise it should be in the first or second hole, and >pretty loose. I wanted to comment on this a bit further. Understand that for a belt to be of any use, it has to be tightened to the point of being very uncomfortable. Just watch a powerlifter get put into his belt by 2 strong friends. I see bozos at my gym walking around all day with their belt on. If it's that comfortable, it's not doing them any good (except perhaps reminding them to keep tight on their lifts). Also, it's a bad idea to wear a belt on all lifts. If you do, your abs and low back will never get any stronger. Don't wear or tighten a belt on your warmups and only on work sets if you're working over 80% of max or so (the NSCA recommendation). I have to laugh at the ladies wearing their cute Pink Valeo belts doing 5 lb lateral raises. Lyle McDonald, CSCS From: (Blaine Hufnagle) Subject: Re: Proper way to wear weight belt? Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 16:45:35 GMT In article <477vsj$m9r@linet02.li.net>, (michael lane) wrote: >Blaine Hufnagle wrote: > >: Neatsfoot oil, liberally applied, will soften it up a bit, and protect the >: finish a little from sweat damage versus a raw leather belt. Assuming of >: course it's not a 10-cm powerlifting belt with suede on one or more sides. > >Thanks Blaine, it does have a suede side (the inside). I dont think it >is a powerlifting belt, it is 3/8 ths of an inch thick (where is that >damn conversion chart =). As far as positioning the belt on my waste, >any suggestions there? 3/8 is the thickness of my new lever belt... What I consider a "cheapo" belt will usually be about 1/4 inch thick. These usually come in a configuration such that the buckle area is only two inches wide as opposed to the four inches on the rest of the belt. It's also one solid piece of leather, as opposed to a layered belt. Three or four liberal coats of Neatsfoot oil will do wonders for the belt's longevity. Don't use Neatsfoot on a "real" powerlifting belt (i.e. the layered kind.) they are NOT supposed to be either flexible OR comfortable. As for positioning, I wear mine about the same place I wear a normal belt. But I only have about half an inch to an inch of leeway because if it's too high, it cuts into my ribcage, and too low, it cuts into my pelvis. Sometimes this makes for a real aggravation, but I live with it. >I have to agree with blane on that one. The Valeo belts I saw did seem >somewhat flimsy...better suited to the lifting of Home Depot employees. I actually fought an employer on this and won. They wanted me to wear one of their little flimsy elastic belts--the ones you see with the shoulder straps, which often have "OSHA Approved" stamped all over them..... they SUCK! My underwear provides more support... I asked them if I could wear my powerlifting belt instead, and they said yes. Of course, the fact that I out-weighed my manager by nearly 80 lbs probably had SOMETHING To do with it... :-) >Maybe they sell a heavy duty model that was not on display where I was? Not that I've seen, but then again, I don't really keep up with them...:-) -blaine From: Lyle McDonald Subject: Re: Belt or no belt when squatting? Date: Sun, 19 Nov 95 12:27:26 -0500 Neil Goldman writes: >I read an article on the Web that unless you are competing, you should >not use a belt when squatting. The author said that a belt is a poor >substitute (not his words) for proper form, and that if you use proper >form in squatting, a belt is unnecessary. However, when I squat, I >always feel more secure wearing a belt. But, after reading this >article, I'm wondering if this is psychological. I would say in this case, it's more psychological. There are good physiological reasons to wear a belt on limit attempts. But, consider that Olympic weight lifters freqently front squat 300-400 lbs without a belt. Wearing a belt all the time (like the bozos in my gym) won't allow your abdominal and low back muscles (sometimes referred to as the natural corset of the body) to become strengthened (in the same way that wearing knee wraps and wrist wraps on all sets won't allow your knees or forearm muscles to become stronger). The NSCA suggests wearing a belt only on sets above 80% of your maximum which is what I follow. However, be aware that if you've been wearing a belt, do not jump into the same work weight that you are used to without one or you will get injured. Instead, drop your work weights, traing your abs and low back (as well as obliques) and progressively increase your work weights without a belt. Or, if you need the belt for psychological reasons, don't wear it on warm-up sets. One final thing, as any powerlifter will tell you, any belt that's loose enough to be comfortable enough to walk around the gym in is not tight enough to do any good. They have to be tight to the point of discomfort to provide any support. Lyle McDonald, CSCS From: "Paul E. Harvey" Subject: Re: What makes a good belt? Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:10:58 -0700 babs wrote: > > Hi, > > I was about to buy a belt. I've seen quite a few kinds ranging from fairly > narrow ones to large wide ones. Obviously ...well I'd imagine that the wider > the better. (By wider in mean in from top edge to bottom edge). However, some > belts are more flexible than others. Could anyone throw a few brand names at > me that they recommend? I'd go with a Cardillo powerlifting belt. -- Paul E. Harvey From: "Jason W.Burnell" Subject: Re: What makes a good belt? Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:37:34 -0700 Paul E. Harvey wrote: > > babs wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I was about to buy a belt. I've seen quite a few kinds ranging from fairly > > narrow ones to large wide ones. Obviously ...well I'd imagine that the wider > > the better. (By wider in mean in from top edge to bottom edge). However, some > > belts are more flexible than others. Could anyone throw a few brand names at > > me that they recommend? > > I'd go with a Cardillo powerlifting belt. > -- > > Paul E. Harvey > > "I'm immovable stone in your world of weak" Pantera You can find good belts in Powerlifting USA. Inzer, Marathon and Elite all sell geood belts. Cardillos are good too but they are about 2x more $$$$ than the others. Unless you just have to have your name embroidered on the thing use the xtra cash on some protein! From: "Jason W.Burnell" Subject: Re: What makes a good belt? Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:40:49 -0700 Jason W.Burnell wrote: > > Paul E. Harvey wrote: > > > > babs wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I was about to buy a belt. I've seen quite a few kinds ranging from fairly > > > narrow ones to large wide ones. Obviously ...well I'd imagine that the wider > > > the better. (By wider in mean in from top edge to bottom edge). However, some > > > belts are more flexible than others. Could anyone throw a few brand names at > > > me that they recommend? > > > > I'd go with a Cardillo powerlifting belt. > > -- > > > > Paul E. Harvey > > > > "I'm immovable stone in your world of weak" Pantera > > You can find good belts in Powerlifting USA. Inzer, Marathon and Elite > all sell geood belts. Cardillos are good too but they are about 2x more > $$$$ than the others. Unless you just have to have your name embroidered > on the thing use the xtra cash on some protein! One more thing. A 4" wide belt is all you really need. I see a lot of guys shorter than me (5'6") walking around with a 6" belt 1/2 way up their backs. Don't worry if the 4" power belt seems so stiff that it cuts into your skin. It will soften over time. From: (Darcy Semeniuk) Subject: Re: powerlifting belt - single or double prong? Date: 2 Dec 1996 23:21:37 GMT Jon Agiato wrote: : D.A. Hinchley wrote: : > : > I'm just about to order a powerlifting belt and was wondering : > whether I should get a single or a double prong? What are the : > advantages/disadvantages of each type of buckle? : I personally prefer the double pronged belts. It really is a matter of : personal preferance, but I will say that the single pronged belts do seem to : fit a bit looser. Maybe it's all in the head.. but thats my two cents.. I prefer a lever belt myself. Much easier to tighten up by yourself. The advantage of a single prong is that you only have to fight with one prong when you try to tighten the belt up. 2 prongs spread the stress over a larger area, and you're less likely to stretch out the holes. Darcy =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Drive Topless!! Darcy S Arnie and Ferrous say "WOOF" From: Jon Agiato Subject: Re: powerlifting belt - single or double prong? Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 10:08:13 -0800 Darcy Semeniuk wrote: > > Jon Agiato wrote: > : D.A. Hinchley wrote: > : > > : > I'm just about to order a powerlifting belt and was wondering > : > whether I should get a single or a double prong? What are the > : > advantages/disadvantages of each type of buckle? > > : I personally prefer the double pronged belts. It really is a matter of > : personal preferance, but I will say that the single pronged belts do seem to > : fit a bit looser. Maybe it's all in the head.. but thats my two cents.. > > I prefer a lever belt myself. Much easier to tighten up > by yourself. The advantage of a single prong is that you > only have to fight with one prong when you try to tighten > the belt up. 2 prongs spread the stress over a larger > area, and you're less likely to stretch out the holes. > > Darcy > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Drive Topless!! Darcy S That's interesting, as I am currently in the market for a new belt myself, and was wondering about those lever belts. Do they fit as tight? Are there any disadvantages? I am so used to using the double pronged belt as part of a psych up ritual, that is, fighting with it gets me in the mood to kill, that I wouldn't want to lose that if it was too easy to put it on.. hehe.. Yours in strength, Jon Agiato 1st class NFPT U.S. Olympic Weightlifting Federation president: Synergistic Training Systems From: Christopher Otte Subject: Re: powerlifting belt - single or double prong? Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 14:11:47 -0500 Jon Agiato wrote: > > Garry Holmen wrote: > > > > Jon Agiato wrote: > > : > > : That's interesting, as I am currently in the market for a new belt > > : myself, and was wondering about those lever belts. Do they fit as tight? > > : Are there any disadvantages? I am so used to using the double pronged > > : belt as part of a psych up ritual, that is, fighting with it gets me in > > : the mood to kill, that I wouldn't want to lose that if it was too easy to > > : put it on.. hehe.. > > > > When Darcy used to lift with a single prong belt we'ld have to really yank > > on that thing to get it snug. I can understand the psyche up comment. > > > > The lever belt I have is easy to get tight. 3 or so days before the > > competition I'll make it one notch tighter and test my openers for > > squat and dead. > > > > There is no way I can get a prong belt as tight as a lever belt. > > > > Garry > > Hmmm.. really? Now I am really curious to try one before I buy. What > about the possibility of it flying open during a set? Has that happened > to you? Also, the other gent said that there is only one notch to use to > close it, and if you want to adjust it, you have to change or adjust some > screws. That sounds annoying. > > Before I get one that's all customized and all, I definetly have to give > this double prong vs. lever thing a little more thought. > > Yours in strength, > > Jon Agiato > 1st class NFPT > U.S. Olympic Weightlifting Federation > president: Synergistic Training Systems The most common thing I see go wrong with lever belts is the lifter forgetting to clamp it shut. I've also seen them spring open on lifters with thicker waist lines. The lever has a set radius, so if you've got a big waist (say... over 44"), they don't quite shut all the way. I've also managed to break the alumium backer plate on the inside of a lever belt while sinching it shut for another lifter. I like regular prong belts. One prong is easier to fasten, while two prongs reduces the amount of twisting at the buckle. Although the lever belt is legal for use in competition, you have to keep the amount it overlaps itself less than 10cm (in the ADFPA) if I remeber correcly... Chris From: "Paul E. Harvey" Subject: Re: powerlifting belt - single or double prong? Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 14:04:34 -0800 Jon Agiato wrote: > > Garry Holmen wrote: > > > > Jon Agiato wrote: > > : > > : That's interesting, as I am currently in the market for a new belt > > : myself, and was wondering about those lever belts. Do they fit as tight? > > : Are there any disadvantages? I am so used to using the double pronged > > : belt as part of a psych up ritual, that is, fighting with it gets me in > > : the mood to kill, that I wouldn't want to lose that if it was too easy to > > : put it on.. hehe.. > > > > When Darcy used to lift with a single prong belt we'ld have to really yank > > on that thing to get it snug. I can understand the psyche up comment. > > > > The lever belt I have is easy to get tight. 3 or so days before the > > competition I'll make it one notch tighter and test my openers for > > squat and dead. > > > > There is no way I can get a prong belt as tight as a lever belt. > > > > Garry > > Hmmm.. really? Now I am really curious to try one before I buy. What > about the possibility of it flying open during a set? Has that happened > to you? Also, the other gent said that there is only one notch to use to > close it, and if you want to adjust it, you have to change or adjust some > screws. That sounds annoying. > It is more than annoying. Having to go to the front desk of the gym and get a screwdriver when you want to adjust the belt kind of takes away >from your workouts. I've switched to a double prong and am definitely glad I did it. The lever piece/mechanism would also push back into the belt when I got it real tight. I'd have to lift with a big lump pushing into my stomach (this is kind of hard to describe, but its a pain in the ass when doing a heavy squat or deadlift). > Before I get one that's all customized and all, I definetly have to give > this double prong vs. lever thing a little more thought. > > Yours in strength, > > Jon Agiato > 1st class NFPT > U.S. Olympic Weightlifting Federation > president: Synergistic Training Systems -- -- Paul E. Harvey, From: (Darcy Semeniuk) Subject: Re: powerlifting belt - single or double prong? Date: 5 Dec 1996 17:15:20 GMT John W. Schwegler wrote: : I hate to open this can of worms again, but do you folks use your : belts only for near-maximum lifts, or for "rep-level" lifts as well : (i.e. 8-15 reps)? I'm very curious, since a couple of months ago I : stopped using a belt for squats and deadlifts for my workouts. I used to use a belt for most squat and dead work, but now I only wear a belt if I'm going for sets of 5 or less. I found the same thing as you...initially I had to lower the weights a bit, but I'm now lifting as much or more without a belt as I did with a belt. My abs and back have gotten stronger to handle the extra work. Darcy =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Drive Topless!! Darcy S Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 19:21:02 -0600 Subject: Belt Use Here's a little tip on belt use which I learned from a few national level powerlifters who trained with Louie Simmons. Since I've noticed that very few lifters are aware of this technique, I thought you might find it useful. Whenever an athlete is attempting a maximum squat or deadlift, the athlete should be forcing his abs out and against his lifting belt. It makes a substantial difference in the amount of weight the athlete is able to hoist. By filling with air, and forcing against the belt with the abs, it stabilizes the spine and also prevents injury. You'll need a decent powerlifting belt to really experience any benefit, those thin leather training belts are practically worthless. Try it, you'll immediately be able to lift more weight. It takes a little concentration and practice initially, but once you get it, it becomes second nature. Give it a try, and please let me know how you successful you are. Best regards, Scott Taylor ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:12:11 -0500 From: Tom McCullough Subject: Re: training without a belt ------------------------------------------- In a message dated 1/26/97 11:00:32 PM, you wrote: << In the end, the lifts that truly demonstrate strength and power i.e. picking things up, and putting things overhead, are too pure to be adulterated by a device which lets one do less work, thus making the deadlift, a mockery of sorts. How can one aptly demonstrate muscular strength in a lift when a belt assists the main muscle tested? >> How is it that you figure a belt can assist one to lift the weight in the deadlift. I think that I mentioned already that the belt does not even help keep the spine in alignment. So what is it exactly that is being adultered? The deadlift uses the muscles hips, knee, and back. How is the belt possibly going to assist one of these muscles? The hips must extend. Does the belt assist this movement? The knee must extend too. Does the belt assist this movement? The lumbar must preform extension. How in the world does the belt help in this movement? If you were talking about knee wraps or a squat suit, I might have to agree they assist in moving bigger weights, but a weight belt. I can lift the same amount in the deadlift, with or without a belt on. Now as for the real safety issues surrounding the belt. I would suggest that you read the literature. Weightlifting belts have been shown to effective improve lifting safety by helping the lifter to increase intra-abdominal pressure (Harman, 1992; Lander, 1990;). This "artificial device" as you call it, does not assist in moving the weight, it actually aids in supporting the spinal column during the lift and reduces the compressive forces on the disks (Bartelink, 1957; Morris, 1961). This helps a lifter sufficiently load the legs without subjecting the lift or the squat. It is only helping the lifter safely perform the lift. Now is it advised to use the belt every time you lift? Of course not. You need to slowly build intra-abdominal strength just like any other muscle. The belt should be limited to the heaviest sets. And then, only in exercises that would directly place excessive loads on the spinal column. You surely don't need a belt on to do the bench press. << I feel that if your spine can not stay straight with a weight you are using in the deadlift, then you are using too much weight and need to strengthen it. >> How about the squat? I doubt the abs are as strong as the legs. My legs are capable of lifting lots of weight, I sure don't expect my abs to be able to keep up with my legs. Would you suggest that I never push my legs to do more work because the abs are not as strong as my legs? Now why don't Olympic lifters see the weight lifting belt as a necessity? Perhaps it is that they are not using such extreme weight as in the GREAT sport of powerlifting. I did notice in the Summer Olympics, that most of the lifters used a belt though. However, I can easily squat 550 to 600 lbs without a belt, but when I get to the 700 to 800 lbs range, I am certainly not going to risk back injury anymore than I have to. My legs are still doing the work, not the belt. In all of this discussion of equipment I can understand argument of the knee wraps, the squat suits, the bench press shirts, the underware, but belts? If lifting with a belt is making a mockery out of weightlifting, I guess we have lots of powerlifters who have made a mockery out of lots of world records. I wonder if Dr. Squat considers his 1014 lb. squat was a joke because he wore a belt. It surely has my respect regardless of what he wore. Tom McCullough MEd., MSS From: Jason Burnell Subject: Re: Lever belts vs. prongs? Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:42:23 -0800 Daron Burrows wrote: > > After nearly missing an attempt in a competition (powerlifting) this > weekend as we struggled to squeeze the second prong into my ragged old > belt, I am seriously contemplating getting a new belt. Since the present > double-pronged belt will see me through training for a long time to come, I > am intending to purchase either a single-pronged belt or a lever-belt which > will go on easily in competition; most likely the lever-belt, as I do like > the belt super-tight. Does anybody have any experience which might > elucidate whether this would be a wise choice? > > Thanks in advance, > > DARON > -- > Daron Burrows, Trinity College, Oxford. I personally use a single prong belt and have tried a lever belt of a buddies. I really liked the lever but I have seen them pop off once or twice. I almost bought one but since my belt is only 3 yrs old I didn't really see the need. I think Jon Agiato is starting to get to me, I'm considering not wearing a belt at all, except maybe on meet day. Notice, I said considering. -- Jason Burnell From: (Daniel Johnson) Subject: Re: Lever belts vs. prongs? Date: 12 Feb 1997 05:34:38 GMT In article <3300D9AF.15C1@earthlink.net>, says... >I personally use a single prong belt and have tried a lever belt of a >buddies. I really liked the lever but I have seen them pop off once or >twice. I almost bought one but since my belt is only 3 yrs old I didn't >really see the need. I think Jon Agiato is starting to get to me, I'm >considering not wearing a belt at all, except maybe on meet day. Notice, >I said considering. >-- >Jason Burnell I use one, about 90% of my powerlifting team uses them, and I have never seen or met anyone who has actually seen one pop off. Maybe if you dont hook them correctly. Aaron Johnson Weight Club Powerlifting Blacksburg Va. Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:11:14 -0600 Subject: Pwerlifting Belts Just a brief note. One time I purchased an imitation powerlifitng belt in an attempt to save a few bucks. Of course it wasn't worth it. I bent the prongs and the roller started coming apart all on the first day. Needless to say, I sent it back. I purchased the Inzer Lever Belt. Well worth it, Very well made and I've had the same one for over four years now. Plus, I can get it tighter than a standard 2 prong belt without having my partner put his foot up against me and pulling. And no, I don't work for John Inzer or any crap like that. Just a little tip that I thought might be helpful. Best regards, Scott Taylor From: Curt Pedersen Subject: Re: Bad Time for Lifting Belts Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 If proper form is being used, you don't ever really need a belt. Not wearing a belt for exercises such as the squat and deadlift will also help to further increase your lower back and abdominal strength, key stabilizers for these exercises, sport, and daily activity. Read Charles Poliquin's latest column in MM2K. In this column he makes mention of the fact that the majority of the medal winners in Olympic lifting did not wear a belt while performing the snatch and clean and jerk, two exercises that place more stress on the low back than the squat or deadlift. Ease into it slowly performing higher reps at first without a belt and you will have a stronger set of abs and low back then ever before, eliminating the chance for injury during lifting, sport, and daily activity. Curt Pedersen The Peak Performance Page: Workouts, Exercise, Nutrition, Supplements and More ! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 From: Paul Chek Subject: Re: Bad Time for Lifting Belts Response to Allan Fawley regarding weight belts: I suggest you wean yourself off weight belts all together, here is why: 1. Weight belts are a mechanical source of intra-abdominal pressure. This mechanical hoop tension is an inhibitor to the bodies natural back stabilizing mechanisms, specifically the intra-abdominal pressure mechanise here. The body has a cealing on intra-abdominal pressure to protect the heart from blood flow restrictions through the inferior vena cava. Because we can only generate so much intra-abdominal pressure, any false mechanical pressure reduces the bodies need to recruit the transverse abdominus and internal obliques by the amount, or % supplied by the weight belt! What this means to you "the user" is that every time you wear a weight belt you are deconditioning you own natural weight belt, the intra-abdominal pressure mechanism. NOTE: YOU DON'T SEE OLYMPIC LIFTERS WEARING BELTS DO YOU?! 2. Weight belts are quite wide, 4-6 inches. When you strap a weight belt around your lumbar spine, you restrict the movement of the upper lumbar segments, which causes over loading of the lower lumbar segments. This is not a good idea since the L4/ and L5/S1 segments carry the most load of all lumbar vertebra and are the most succeptible to disk herniation. Please consider that range of motion under load is a primary factor by which disks break down. NOTE: As a functional measure of the deficite in your abdominal wall, simply perform a squat, dead lift or any other lift that you feel you need the help of your little leather friend with a load allowing 8-10 reps, but use no weight belt. Then, perform the same lift after a 5:00 rest period with your belt on. Surprise! If you were able to lift the load for more reps you have a functional deficite. You can calculate the deficite roughly by using the 2.5% rule; each rep you performed beyond what you could do for the same weight with no belt is aprox. 2.5% of your Max lift. If your abdominal wal functions correctly, there will be no differance with or without the belt, in fact, if your abdominal wall functions well, the belt may cause a decrease in your lifting ability. This is a very brief summary of intra-abdominal wall function and it's pressure mechanism. I go into detail in my video program titled "Scientific Abdominal Training." I hope this information is of assistance to you! Sincerely, Paul Chek ------------------------------ From: (the tree by the river) Subject: Re: belts and dead lift question Date: 24 Apr 1997 22:53:22 GMT In article <5jo948$6kn$1@News.Dal.Ca> (Desmond Chan) writes: >Millard Baker wrote: > >: It is nice to find so many people who don't believe in the necessity of a >: belt. Most people can't believe that I do reps on squats and deadlifts >: with 500lbs and no belt; so many people want to offer me advice about using >: a belt and warn be about getting hurt without one. I never use a belt except as something to hook a chain to and hang dumbbells off of and I get the same kind of helpful advice--curiously, always from people who would probably have trouble squatting just the bar. (I do understand someone wearing it for curls, though, if they're into belts--if you're used to wearing a belt, it can be part of psyching yourself up for the lift; kinda like a lucky penny, only it takes up more space in the gym bag.) >I don't know if I do not believe in using lifting belt but I just have >never thought about using one myself and don't find it necessary for me so >far (perhaps doing reps on deadlifts with twice the body weight is still >too light to make it necessary ;-). My feeling is that protective equipment has its place in competition and in preparing for a meet (you want to be accustomed to the feel of the exercise while wearing the stuff), but for training purposes, I think protective gear is a way of training a weakness into your body so that the next time you feel like showing off and demonstrating that you can pick up one end of a car, or being helpful and moving a refrigerator for your mom, you'll be that much more likely to hurt yourself. -- Trygve Lode From: John McKenzie Subject: Re: sad gym story Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 01:36:56 +1000 > I have a simple solution for next time...stop being a dork yourself and WEAR > a belt!! Granted, violating simple safety guidelines is more macho and does > more for maintaining a "tough guy" image, but wearing a belt just MIGHT keep > other "dorks" from bothering you again in the future. Tell you what..forget > about the fact that the guy was probably concerned about your safety and well > being, not to mention respectful. Concentrate on his DARING to interrupt your > set....that's obviously more important. lets keep in mind here that the original poster was shooting for 20 reps. whilst a belt may increase intra abdominal pressure and actually increase your one rep max performance (not your strength per se, just your demonstrable strength), it is primarily used for this reason, NOT for any perceived safety. If you think wearing a belt will help you avoid a back injury or some such, think again. further, by relying on some support like this, you are robbing yourself of complete muscular development and functional strength, which will actually offset any potential injury. lets not forget that a lot of back injuries are not from the weight room (assuming of course that proper form is employed) but from lifting odd objects with incorrect form. are you suggesting we wear a belt all day? The other thing about weight belts is that they are only effective and functional when done up really tight, otherwise they are just window dressing. Further consider that if they are tighhtened correctly then they will certainly not permit a full bore 20 rep effort in which breathing would be markedly laboured. one last bit on safety; which is more dangerous, someone trying to correct an ill perceived error with misinformation, and thereby causing the lifter in question to lose concentration and then form (after all he is not "pumping and toning" he is going full bore) or the fact that the lifter was not actually wearing a belt? John McKenzie (who lifts at home, never wears a belt, squats and deadlifts hard and has a good strong, uninjured back to show for it). From: Jerry Connelly Subject: weightlifting belts Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 08:44:14 -0400 I've been hearing mixed things about the use of weight-lifting belts. Any knowledgeable opinions out there on the suhject? >>> The purpose of the belt is to increase intrabdominal pressure that will aid the lift...but because of it's improper application, it never get's to perform this function effectively. Most people I see wrap the belt around the pelvis at the Superior Iliac Crest, or the highet point of the pelvic bone. Doing this seems to increase SI jpint problems more than aid the lifter. This seems to be more of a problem in female athletes, because even if they place the belt properly at the level of the navel, it still wraps heavily around the ASIS. Many lifters that have complained to me about SI problems, have resolved it by simply not using a belt. Better to develop strong abs and erectors. One good benefit is that the belt seems to stimulate the erectors to fire from proprioceptive (touch) application. How many times have you seen someone wearing a belt, and when the squat or bend over to do a deadlift, it seems very loose, and wonder how it could possibly benefit them...it's simply stimultating the erectors (and other back muscles) to do their job- Emperically, many Olympic Champion and World Champion Weightlifters do NOT wear a belt in either of the lifts...i.e. Botev, Chermerkin, Vlad, Dimas etc. Jerry Connelly, MEd, ATC, CSCS Performance Zone Web Page Just my $47.93 here, but I've worn a belt almost since day 1. I wore it when I did any overhead motions, rowing motions, squatting or deadlifting motions, and if I did heavy standing curls, I used it then, also. I recently stopped wearing the belt. Interestingly enough, my lower back, which I thought was overstressed from all the obnoxious physical activity I do in my job (military) stopped hurting while I ran. After a few squat and back workouts, sans belt, the back pains I felt while running all but disappeared. I finish 3 or 4 sets of beltless squats, and my back feels fine. It's actually easier now to do stiff leg deadlifts after beltless squats, as wearing a belt always seemed to leave me MORE tired, and almost incapacitated with lower back pain. I avoided doing the SDL's cuz my lower back was killing me, and I made SURE to cinch the belt up tighter and tighter each workout, since Ijust KNEW I needed the extra back support. Go figure . . . anyway, moral of the story is : don't rely on the belt to allow you to lift heavier weight than you should be lifting. Unless you have serious problems, you can probably do without for many, if not all of your exercises. Your waist and lower back will thank you! Just be very careful of your technique, and don't overdo the weight. The belt seems to give a false sense of security, as it "enables" you to lift more weight, especially on squats and deads. Lift without for awhile, and I'd be willing to bet your lower back and midsection will become stronger in no time at all. I'm seriously considering a powerlifting meet at the end of November, and I plan on lifting RAW all the way to the end. Not because I think it's the MANLY thing to do, but because Ithink the benefits to my strength will help me in the contest. cogito ergo SQUAT! Rob and Sonia Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 01:59:47 -0800 From: Adam Auerbach Subject: My need for a weight belt. I am a 30 year old competitive olympic lifter and I use a belt primarily for extra support when jerking heavy weights overhead. The back side of the belt acts as a splint and helps prevent hyperextension of my lower back, specifically facet compression of the L5-S1. Mother nature provided me with an high degree of natural lordosis and relatively poor scapular retraction and external rotation of the humerus.. This combination results in increased localized pressure in my lower back. I have utilized physical therapy to increase my range of motion through stretching and strengthening and have worked on torso stabilization of all sorts. These modalities have grealty improved my mechanics, but the belt still provides me with that extra bit of support. I do agree that there is no substitute for proper exercise technique and a strong midsection, but for a "genetic fuck up" like myself, I'm not about to toss out this valuable piece of leather. Adam Auerbach Subject: Belts From: Bill Kerr Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:36:15 -0800 Someone commented on people wearing belts for their whole workout. I used to think that was pretty stupid, too (what does a belt do when you're doing preacher curls?) but I finally asked one guy why he did it. He had a congenital spine defect (partially fused vertebrae) and he wore the belt for even "simple" things like moving plates off the rack and onto the bar and things like that. You have to bend over to take a 45-pounder off the pyramid stand and if you have a back problem that kind of bending and twisting motion is where you tend to tweak it. I know a couple of people with spina bifida, too, and they wear belts all the time. When it isn't actually supporting you, it's still reminding you, so you remember to take care while moving big plates or loaded bars around. And apparently spina bifida is much more common than is generally known. So, all in all, I don't wonder about that anymore. If they like it, fine. And I like callouses, too. A woman once said to me, "An aquarius with callouses? Wow, you must really be talented." Unfortunately, except for that one burst of insight, she was a complete flake. But I still like the callouses. From Sun Apr 5 08:46:57 PDT 1998 I have been dealing with an impinged sciatic nerve in the my lower back for the last month. My chiropractor has helped a lot. Even though I believe that squats and dead lifts probably caused the problem, the chiropractor I am going to still recommends NOT using a belt when lifting (except for a couple of months while I am working on strengthening the surrounding muscles in that area. He says that using a belt causes the muscles that hold the vertibrae in place in the lower back to not develop properly and cause a dependence on a the belt. Also, I just an amateur, not a world-class competetive bodybuilder. By the way, a neuro-muscular massage concentrating on your lower back (and leg if you are feeling the nerve pain there too) can make it feel a LOT better (especially after a chiropractic visit). Just my two cents worth, Drew Subject: hernia question From: (Donna & Joe) Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 07:34:16 -0700 I think Ken's stab at a diagnosis was an accurate one, given the symptoms presented. Kind of a timely discussion, as just before Christmas I had the very surgery he described, wherein the tear in the abdominal wall is stitched together and overlaid with a mesh. After a 3 month layoff, my lifting is getting back to where it was before (squats 8x315, etc.) and I'm looking for and endoresment of the following line of reasoning: I've quit using a belt on the intuitive (to me, at least) theory that going without one means I'll be generating less intra-abdominal pressure, distributing that pressure more evenly, and hopefully preventing a recurrence. Thoughts, anyone? I know that mentally I'm not pushing myself as hard I should be - the thought of going through all that again is nagging at me, but maybe I should be more confident now that I'm beltless? Thanks, Joe Subject: Re: Hernia Question From: "Daly, Maj Bryan Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:16:02 -0700 Let me get this straight: You're up to the same weight from before your injury WITHOUT a belt now, and feel you're still not pushing yourself as hard? I think you're getting a better workout now. Bryan Daly Subject: the biological belt From: James Wickham Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:23:09 -0700 As a good rule of thumb it is best to use your own biological belt (abdominal musculature) as much as possible. After all you dont want to depend on and wear a weight belt 24hrs a day, it just makes you look fat. Seriously speaking, if you cant get 8 reps out then you probably need a weight belt. As for your situation you wouldnt want to be going that heavy for a while anyway until you have had enough time developing your abdominal strength at slightly higher rep ranges. So dont forget to contract your abs when you lift. James Wickham. Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:17:41 -0400 From: "Steven Dana" Subject: alright some new threads -Reply I use both a lever belt and a double prong belt. I prefer the lever belt for squatting as it is easier to put on and remove amidst all the pre-squat tension that can occur at meets. I also like to have my belt very tight in the squat to support my back during the descent. I use a two prong belt (I've never used a single prong) for my deadlifts because the lever belt is too tight. I like my belt to be snug/medium tight for the deadlifts so I can bend over and pick up the bar. The lever belt makes it too hard to breathe while bending over for the deadlift. As far as the bench press goes, I occasionally wear either belt as neither is really necessary. I probably wear the belt for the bench press more out of habit than anything else. Although there is no physiological evidence supporting the use of a belt during the performance of the bench press, it can help in holding the bench shirt down and in place. Stay strong, Matt matt: thanks a bunch. that is EXACTLY what I needed. At my last meet (deadlift only), I found the lever too tight and difficult to breath as I squatted down to begin the deadlift...I felt this cost me about 25lbs. Maybe I'll go to the two belt system now too. thanks a bunch for the insight. in sport, steve dana Subject: Re: Lifting belts From: "James Krieger" Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:58:56 -0800 Lander et al (1) examined the effects of the use of weight belts on spinal compression and muscle activity during the squat exercise. The most significant differences between groups were found at weights of 90% 1 RM. It was found that weight belts increased IAP and reduced spinal compression by 2.8-6.2% as compared to no belt. Mean back muscle forces were 2.6-5.0% greater without a belt. However, trunk muscle activity was significantly reduced as compared to the no-belt condition. Thus, the use of a weight belt may result in the trunk muscles not receiving an optimal training stimulus. The results of this study suggest that a belt should only be worn when extremely heavy weights are used (such as 90% 1 RM or greater). A belt should not be worn during lighter sets so the trunk muscles may receive a training stimulus. 1. Lander, J.E., R.L. Simonton, and J.K.F. Giacobbe. The effectiveness of weight-belts during the squat exercise. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 22(1):117-126. 1990. James Krieger Subject: L.B. Baker and Belts From: Paul Chek Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:59:45 -0800 Message text written by The Weights Mailing List >I believe it is going to the extreme to say, never wear a belt!, or always wear a belt!. L B Baker< * L.B., I read your note to Loren Goldenburg. Obviously you are skilled at making decisions about the use of belts and most likely all related paraphernalia. I am most concerned about those who don't understand how the trunk works and who don't understand the current scientific advancements made in the understanding of how the spine and pelvis are stabilized. It is these people that will often make the mistake of thinking that because some super star in the gym wears a belt during a lift of 400+ that it must be good all the time. I have rehabilitated the spines of many big lifters and they all had one thing in common, an inverted recruitment pattern of the abdominal wall, indicating that they used the rectus abdominus to stabilize their trunk under load without recruitment of the deep abdominal wall. A good example of my concern is evidenced at most every power lifting meet run in the US or abroad; ask how many big squatters, benchers,and dead lifters there are in the audience and you find that they out number the competitors significantly. They all tell the same story "I used to be able to bench 500 till I hurt my shoulder", "I squatted 700, but I hurt my back", I dead lifted 700, but I hurt my back". Believe me L.B., you are the exception, not the rule. I commend you for your wisdom and durability! Paul Chek C.H.E.K Institute Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:21:55 EST Subject: Strength_List: BELTS & AB MYTHS On 3/12/99 , wrote: << they say to suck in while going down, I thought we have been taught to push our fat guts against our belts ? >> ***This sucking-in of the abs advice to stabilise the trunk via activating transversus is one of the very popular urban myths based on old aerobics practice and partial references by folk who have never studied or participated in serious competitive lifting or industrial labour. Belt wearing does not prevent you from using your abs - plenty of EMG electrical recordings show that idea to be untrue. There probably isn't a Powerlifter or Weightlifter alive who would suck abs in while doing serious training or competitive lifts. Similarly, even without an added load and no belt, there are no athletes in other sports who stabilise their trunks in that misguided way - for example, my Russian colleagues have studied breathing and abdominal muscle recruitment patterns in their top gymnasts, jumpers, pole vaulters, shotputters and so forth and nobody sucks in the abs to stabilise the trunk during their events. As a matter of interest, the body quite naturally responds to force production with a breath holding reflex (the Valsalva Manoeuvre) accompanied by an outward bulging of the abdominal muscles. Any deliberate attempt to pull the abs in produces a tendency towards spinal flexion, which is the last tendency that anyone wants when squatting, lifting a load from the ground or pushing above the head. Outward bulging of the abdomen is a perfectly natural reflex action associated with large force production and trunk stabilisation - why go against a natural reflex and pull in when your nervous system is doing a perfectly competent job on its own by guiding you to push out? By the way, the acts of forceful grunting and short, sharp attempts at expulsion of air from the lungs tends to strongly activate the transversus muscle and we have all noticed how often that sort of action is indulged in by powerlifters. This ab sucking-in tale is all part of a whole belief system which maintains that the abdominal muscles are the most important muscles in stabilising and protecting the back. Some of us have had very heated arguments about this, but the proponents of this method totally refuse to accept that it is strength of the back muscles which plays a far greater role in protecting the backs of Weightlifters and Powerlifters. They refuse to accept the research of folk such as Basmajian ("Muscles Alive") that it is passive bulging of the abdominal muscles, rather than active contraction of these muscles, which offers added pneumatic stabilisation to the already massive contribution by the erector spinae muscles of the back. Maybe they actually believe that huge abs are better for trunk strength than strong backs! <> ***This is also personal opinion and is not supported by research. There are several ways of wearing a belt, anyway - the fairly loose wearing of a belt can enhance one's proprioceptive awareness and act as a useful teaching tool. On the other hand, the chronic wearing of a very tight belt for entire workouts at a time, day in, day out theoretically can lead to altered patterns of trunk stabilisation, but there are very few lifters who ever leave tight belts or wraps on for hours on end - invariably most lifters who use belts correctly loosen them directly after their lifts. The chronic use of a tight belt would probably be more associated with some sort of psychological dependence than any real weakening of any muscles - and that may be one reason not to rely all the time on belt support for every exercise Moreover, very tight belts are used only for the few seconds of maximal attempts and there is absolutely no research whatsoever which show that this causes any spinal problems. To state that "A weight belt inhibits your nervous system^Rs ability to fire" is total nonsense and is sheer opinion - again there is no research showing this, so don't take it at all seriously. There is far more risk in telling any lifter not to use a belt for the occasional 1RM efforts than there is in that same lifter employing a method which he/she is used to. By all means use a tight belt for those competition maxs, but just don't become too psychologically reliant on belt security for entire workouts at a time. Dr Mel C Siff Denver, USA Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 10:25:24 PST From: "JASON ARBOGAST" Subject: Re: Strength_List: belts hey bob,i just got my 10mm buckle belt last nite and good timing to i had deads this morning.i love it.its contour is nice and it gives great support.i ordered it from inzer for about 60 bucks. Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:42:51 -0700 From: "Linda Schaefer" Subject: Strength_List: Belts.... Hey Bob - Try on several if you can - if you are short waisted as the trio of 198'er are here in Colorado, you can't help but inflict bruising on either the rib or the hip area in the deadlift, if the belt shifts at all. I HATE double prongs - I dislocated a finger helping a certain lifter from Idaho into HIS.....so let's just say it's tough to get those babies on when they call "bar loaded". My first belt was a single prong 13 mm with a whacking big leather belt guard. sigh. I had to turn that belt guard/buckle to the back - and have people pull it for me - because it clobbered me squatting and deadlifting both - and I got some WICKED bruising from the buckle even - below the belly button. I'm not a fan of the incredibly sneaky lever belt I have - but at least now I don't have to rely on assistance to buckle it - well, not most of the time - In that #$%** bench shirt last night I couldn't get there...sigh. But normally. The only caveat is we've now had TWO incidences of bizarre lever belt behavior - Dan's popped open with his 799 squat opener in December...that and my "it flew off in mid-rep and landed 3 feet in front of me during a near max squat!". You also have to be VERY careful it hooks through the holes...and NOT just the top layer of suede! Soooooo........again, personal preference rears its head....BUT I also talked to a pretty good lifter who told me he not only snapped prongs off his lever, but actually BROKE the lever itself...and you see, it gets even weirder. That and the lever does not have many spaces - whereas a regular belt you can punch holes in between - has anyone here tried to punch a hole set in between on 1" spaced lever belt? DOES IT WORK? or will I ruin my belt? I'm considering this as a last resort....it's WAY too loose on the loose setting, and TOO Nasty on the tight one...sigh. Most Cordially, the Phantom Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:53:09 EST Subject: Strength_List: BELTS & SQUATTING << Mel wrote: In addition, Dr Zatsiorsky showed major differences between conventional belts and ones which are wider in front (guess which type is favoured by powerlifters?). >> On 1/27/00, writes: ***A belt that is wider in front offers better overall support during heavy lifting, though, of course, this may compromise your range of movement in Olympic lifts, which require greater flexibility. Generally, if you insist on using a belt, it is better to reserve it for maximum lifts or when you may have some back problem that necessitates some support. Either that or to act as a feedback aid to help you keep a good lifting posture. Often it can also provide some psychological support! Theoretically or practically, it is wise to try to strengthen your trunk as much as possible without a belt, but the periodic use of a belt for those uncertain or maximal attempts is not going to cause any noticeable weakness. The rules of lifting permit the use of a belt, so why not use it for those occasions when it may help or protect you? It is only when one overuses any assistive device that you may become reliant upon it. <> ***That other person claimed that belts may cause back problems by inhibiting the trunk stabilisers and I questioned the accuracy of that rather unsubstantiated remark (by the way, that person has now attacked me quite personally for daring to question his beliefs!). It is not a belt that will harm you, but the way in which you use a belt or squat that will put you at risk. I always stress that it is not necessarily that an exercise or device is unsafe, but the way in which it is used may be unsafe. I have just received the program of that Strength & Conditioning Clinic at Ohio University at which Louie Simmons, Greg Sheppard, Bill Starr, Ethan Reeve and myself will be talking (March 10-11), so if you are there we will be able to address many questions like that. I look most forward to meeting some more of you in person. Dr Mel C Siff Denver, USA Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:53:53 EDT Subject: Strength_List: BELTS & LIFTING Here are a few interesting articles on belt use and stabilisation of the spine. Note that none of these studies involved any specific focus on the possible role played by TA (transversus Abdominis) in trunk stabilisation, but showed that increased Intra-abdominal Pressure (IAP) and activation of the back muscles suffices to achieve stabilisation under conditions of loaded lifting. Note that one of the articles shows that belt wearing does not decrease activity of the trunk muscles while lifting, as is often claimed by those who oppose belt wearing. Instead, the EMG activity of all 12 trunk muscles increases significantly in all three directions due to the increased IAP. Another article showed that the activity of the oblique abdominal muscles when lifting decreased after isometric abdominal training, thereby suggesting that the typical type of slow abdominal exercise like "crunches" may have Another noteworthy observation is that maximum activity of the abdominal muscles appears long before the peak of the IAP, and that this lag between the two peaks may compromise lifting safety. On the other hand, if the IAP were to peak before the abdominal muscles, an inadequate "pressure wall" might exist to contain the increased pressure. This finding might lend further weight to the recommendation that one should not exceed about 70% of one's maximum breath holding capability during heavy lifting (Vorobyev A "Textbook on Weightlifting" 1978). - ------------------------ Miyamoto K et al Effects of abdominal belts on intra-abdominal pressure, intra-muscular pressure in the erector spinae muscles and myoelectrical activities of trunk muscles. Clin Biomech (Bristol, Avon) 1999 Feb; 14(2):79-87 Intra-muscular pressure of the erector spinae muscles increases significantly by wearing an abdominal belt during Valsalva maneuvers and during maximum isometric lifting exertions, while maximum isometric lifting capacity and peak intra-abdominal pressure are not affected. Electrical activity of rectus abdominis increases significantly by wearing an abdominal belt during Valsalva maneouvres (after full inspiration) and during isometric leg lifting. It is concluded that wearing abdominal belts raises intra-muscular pressure of the erector spinae muscles and appears to stiffen the trunk. Assuming that increased intra-muscular pressure of the erector spinae muscles stabilizes the lumbar spine, wearing abdominal belts may contribute to the stabilization during lifting exertions. - ------------------------------- Cholewicki J et al Lumbar spine stability can be augmented with an abdominal belt and/or increased intra-abdominal pressure. Eur Spine J 1999;8(5):388-95 The belt and raised IAP (Intra-abdominal pressure) increased trunk stiffness in all directions, but the results in extension lacked statistical significance. In flexion, trunk stiffness increased by 21% and 42% due to 40% and 80% IAP levels respectively; in lateral bending, trunk stiffness increased by 16% and 30%. The belt added between 9% and 57% to the trunk stiff ness depending on the IAP level and the direction of exertion. In all three directions, the EMG activity of all 12 trunk muscles increased significantly due to the elevated IAP. The belt had no positive or negative effect on the activity of any of the muscles, with the exception of the thoracic erector spinae in extension and the lumbar erector spinae in flexion, whose activities decreased. The results indicate that both wearing an abdominal belt and raised IAP can each independently, or in combination, increase lumbar spine stability. However, the benefits of the belt must be interpreted with caution in the context of the decreased activation of a few trunk extensor muscles. - ---------------------------------------------- Cresswell A, Blake P & Thorstensson A The effect of an abdominal muscle training program on intra-abdominal pressure. Scand J Rehabil Med 1994 Jun; 26(2):79-86 The effect of 10 weeks' specific abdominal strength training (resisted trunk rotations) on intra-abdominal pressure was investigated in 10 healthy males. Isometric rotational force, trunk flexor and extensor torque and intra-abdominal pressure were measured as well as intra-abdominal pressure responses to Valsalva manoeuvres, maximal pulsed pressures, drop jumps and trunk perturbations. Rotational strength increased 29.7% after training without significant change in intra-abdominal pressure. The isometric flexor strength did not change, while the extensor strength increased 11.0%. Valsalva and pulsed pressures increased 11.6 and 9.2%, respectively. The rate of intra-abdominal pressure development during pulsed pressures, drop jumps and trunk perturbations increased after training. The level of intra-abdominal pressure during the latter two tasks remained unchanged. It is concluded that an increase in strength of the trunk rotators with training improves the ability to generate higher levels of voluntarily induced intra-abdominal pressure and increases the rate of intra-abdominal pressure development during functional situations. - ------------------------------------- Hemborg B et al Intraabdominal pressure and trunk muscle activity during lifting--effect of abdominal muscle training in healthy subjects. Scand J Rehabil Med 1983;15(4):183-96 Twenty healthy young men went through intense isometric training of the abdominal muscles for five weeks. Before and after training the subjects were put through a standardized test programme, measuring the strength of abdominal and back muscles, and a series of lifts, 10, 25, and 40 kg, leg lifts and back lifts. The intraabdominal pressure (IAP), and the EMG activity of the oblique abdominal muscles, and of the erector spinae muscle were recorded. It was found that: 1. The strength of the trunk flexors increased markedly after abdominal training. The activity of the oblique abdominal muscles when lifting decreased after abdominal training, i.e. motor unit recruitment was not improved. 2. The IAP at lifting was not affected by abdominal training. 3. The activity of the oblique abdominal muscles was of no decisive importance to the IAP. 4. The strength of the back muscles increased, but the activity of the back muscles at lifts was not affected by abdominal training. In back lifts there was no detectable activity of the back muscles during the beginning of the lifting and during a great part of the lowering. 5. In back lifts the maximum activity of the abdominal muscles appeared long before the peak of the IAP, which may be of importance with regard to the development of inguinal hernia. - ------------------------------------------- Cholewicki J, Juluru K & McGill S Intra-abdominal pressure mechanism for stabilizing the lumbar spine. J Biomech 1999 Jan;32(1):13-7 Two distinct mechanisms for stabilising the spine were simulated separately and in combination. One was antagonistic flexor-extensor muscle coactivation and the second was abdominal muscle activation along with generation of IAP. Both mechanisms were effective in stabilizing the model of a lumbar spine. Both mechanisms were also effective in providing mechanical stability to the spine model when activated simultaneously. The breath-holding IAP mechanism for stabilizing the lumbar spine appears preferable in tasks that demand trunk extensor moment such as lifting or jumping. This mechanism can increase spine stability without the additional coactivation of the erector spinae muscles of the back. - ----------------------------------------- Dr Mel C Siff Denver, USA Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:02:55 -0600 From: Sean Anderson Subject: Re: Strength_List: Belt Question JTARTER wrote: > I have yet to see any kind of thread (although I have about as much > memory as I do hair) on how tight your lifting belt should be! Should it > be as tight as you can possibly stand? Or should it be slightly snug? or > something in between? Dave Tate said at the March 11, 2000 Westside training seminar (By Elite Fitness Systems) that the belt should be tight but still be able to allow you to stick your finger in between it and your torso. Best Wishes Andy Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 02:19:23 EDT From: TSteve Subject: Re: Strength_List: Belt Question Depends on the lift. For the squat and dead, as tight as you can stand. For the bench, I don't even use one, It impeeds your arch. Tom Stevenson Wheatfield, NY Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:40:20 -0700 From: "Dwayne & Feather" Subject: Strength_List: Belt Tightness ***Actually there was a thread on this sometime back. Personally I like having my belt just tight enough that I can slip two fingers down the back of it. When I sinch it up too tight I tend to get hurt around it. It is like the thoractic pressure is looking for someplace to go and is forced into places I don't want it. Roger Broeg Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:22:54 -0500 From: "Clauss, Mike" Subject: Belt fit I have a couple questions about PL belts, first there seems to be some controversy on how tight it should be worn, I read where people say it should be loose enough for you to slip at least two fingers between the belt and your stomach when you relax your abs, but I've seen people cinch them down so tight that the belt looks more like a corset. Just how tight should it be, what's the advantage of wearing it super tight? Second, how high/low should the belt be worn? I read that it should be worn as low on the hips as possible, but when I wear it low it jams between my ribs and hips at the bottom of the squat and keeps me from going much below parallel. Is this one of the benefits of the belt? Will the jamming stop after the belt is broken in? Mike Southfield, MI As to the belt, for PL I'd recommend a lever belt. However, if you are still doing the odd lifts and barrels and such, a lever might get hung up on bags, barrels etc. so I'd probably go with a single prong. A double prong feels a bit tighter but would seem like a pain to crank that second prong on on meet day. And and Inzer won't be $100. A 13 mm thick lever belt is only $68, a 13m thick buckle belt is $70. If you prefer the 10 mm thick belt, either is only $58. These belts have the "Forever" guarantee. Hope this helps and glad to see you are back at it, -- Jason W. Burnell Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:54:26 -0000 Subject: Re: Belts As far as belts go I started off with the Inzer 13mm lever. Just ordered the 13mm double prong though. It just feels a little better to me. When I first got the lever belt, I cranked that thing super tight, but now I wear it so loose that I even wrapped my knees with the belt cranked at my last meet, I didn't even realize it was tightened. I figure I'll get used to the two prongs after a little while. Nobody seems to have too much of a problem with them at meet time. Part of it for me is one less mental issue. I have walked up to the platform on two occassions and had the head judge remind me to tighten my lever belt. And finally I hate adjusting the damned thing with a quarter as my weight fluctuates wildly. When Dave Tate saw my faithful lever belt at a WSB seminar, he laughed out loud and called in "California Belt". As an Oregonian, I can't have people making this mistake or I may be asked to leave the State. Dean Reece Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:03:56 -0500 From: "Neil Hodge" Subject: Belt recommendations All: Just wondering what the general consensus is here (or if there even is one) regarding the style and/or brand of belt to use for squats and deads. Thanks. Neil Hodge Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 23:20:00 EDT Subject: Re: Belt recommendations I like a really tight double buckle...hits me square in the ribs at the bottom of the squat and adds some impetus to get back up... Ryan Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 23:22:32 EDT From: LJLWATSON Subject: Re: Belt recommendations I like the Grizzly. Its a Canadian made belt sold by Crain Muscle World. It's 11-13mm thick. Single notch. Its a bit rigid, if you like a more plyable belt I wouldn't know what recommend. Some guys/gals like lever belts. I remember one of the ladies; either Karen Sizemore or Linda Schafer talking about a lever being better. Lonnie Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:35:15 -0000 From: Ermantroudt Subject: Re: Belt recommendations "Just wondering what the general consensus is here (or if there even is one)regarding the style and/or brand of belt to use for squats and deads." I have used a 13mm and a 10mm belt, I like them both. The 13mm belt (a second hand Pacfico), a single prong, was very stiff and made me feel more comfortable mentally. The 10mm belt (a Inzer, my current belt) is a lever belt which can be made very tight and is soft enough to crank on the first time. I feel very strong with this belt. I like the lever over the single prong, but I have not had it come open or break as some have, perhaps IF that happens I will change my tune. I was able to attend a Dave Tate Seminar last weekend, and Dave suggested getting a belt from http://www.bobsbelts.com Personally, if I were to be buying a new belt, I would get a 13mm lever belt from Safe or Crain, as I do not think Bobs Belts offers a lever. Mitch Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:47:41 -0500 From: Randy Berndt Subject: RE: Belt recommendations I like the Inzer's lever. When I work out I leave it un-locked. that-a-way I keep the lumbar warm & still keep the feeling of wearing the belt. I don't lock it until I reach the upper atmosphere of lifting....Then snap it's locked in the exact position, no fumbling with prongs. It's just easier. Randy B Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:29:20 +0100 From: Scott Shalkowski Subject: First Belt My whole training life, I've gone without a belt. I've been thinking of getting one, now that I've been attempting maxes and my raw deadlift is very nearly 2x bodyweight (bw = about 65 kgs). [I know that that figure isn't so spectacular compared to most on this list, and my bench and squat are still not very good, but it's where I am at the moment.] Here in the UK I can get a range of belts. For UKP 25 (post paid) I can get a double prong 4" belt 5mm thick belt. For 45, I can get one 10mm thick and for 65 one 12mm suede and for 80 either a double-sided suede or a thick steerhide lever belt. [Just to give you an idea of the range.] I'm not sure I see myself competing anytime soon, so the monster belts don't seem worth it at the moment. The main question is whether the 5mm belt is worth much for one who is essentially, as far as max lifts go, a beginner. Or should I just go one of the thicker belts? Scott Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:21:13 -0500 From: "ironbear" Subject: RE: First Belt Yes I agree with Jim, don't skimp on your belt. But at the same time you don't have to buy 10mm or 13mm prong or lever belt to start with. A good 5mm leather 2 pronged belt that can be purchase in any sporting goods store is just as good. I made my first one years ago because I could not afford to buy one. It was a two pronged 5mm leather one & lasted for me over 20 yrs.