------------------------------ From: js@axionet.com Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 Subject: Re: Forearm Pain >The problem I have is when doing bicep curls (standing barbell, preacher, >preacher machine & dumbbell curls)I get a real sharp pain which runs down >the backside of my forearm (both sides). The pain sort of feels like shin >splints. When I'm done with the exercise I have to let go of the bar slowly >and the pain stays for a little while. The pain has gotton so bad that I >have had to decrease weight just to make it bearable. I have tried taking a >loose grip with the bar but that hasn't helped much. Does anyone out there >know what this is attributed to. Is it tendonitis or something? > >Thanks, >Bob I get this too, Bob. I've just figured the excercise wasn't compatable with me so I played around with the angles. With the preacher curl, I tend to lean forward a bit more; this helps. With the curls, I had to decrease the weight, there was no way around it, and if I went super light, I could really concentrate and isolate the biceps - without the strain - but, I also couldn't work them as hard as I wanted to. It helped me become more aware of what was going on with them. So, I just changed to chin-ups and cable curls instead. And just the odd curl with the bar or dumbbells, just to see if anything's changed. Now that I'm thinking of it, it could have something to do with forearms. At some point during the (curl) movement, it's like the joint is solely responsible for the weight which is not good and implies the pain you are describing, and maybe this could be eliviated with extra forearm work. Here's a piece of trivia: Women's arms bend differntly at the elbows. We can move our lower-arms out more while they're still reletivley straight. Joanne ------------------------------ From: Keith Connell Subject: Re: Forearm Pain Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 >The problem I have is when doing bicep curls (standing barbell, preacher, >preacher machine & dumbbell curls)I get a real sharp pain which runs down >the backside of my forearm (both sides). The pain sort of feels like shin >splints. When I'm done with the exercise I have to let go of the bar slowly >and the pain stays for a little while. The pain has gotton so bad that I >have had to decrease weight just to make it bearable. I have tried taking a >loose grip with the bar but that hasn't helped much. Does anyone out there >know what this is attributed to. Is it tendonitis or something? It IS like shin splints. Forearm splint to be a little more precise. Try doing a set of reverse curls BEFORE every set of a biceps exercise. After a week or two you shouldn't notice any pain, but keep it up. The main reason people have this kind of pain is muscle imbalance. Keith kconnell@spd.dsccc.com || ()))-----())) ------------------------------ From: martinsp Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 Subject: Re: Forearm Pain "Robert D. Tacher" wrote that he was experiencing forearm pain during curls. I had the same problem, after heavy EZ bar curls. My doctor said it was tendonitis and to rest! For 10 months now I have just done hammer curls for my biceps, four sets a week, this is the only excercise I can do without giving forearm pain. I cut out all excercises with the EZ bar (tricep excercises etc.) and upright rows. After this 10 months I have not felt any pain and have put machine preacher curls into my routine. During this time I have put a fair bit of size on my arms, so I was probably overtraining them anyway. I hope Robert gets over it quicker than I did, but the good news is it won't affect gains if the routine is adjusted a bit, but I don't think I will use the EZ bar again. Simon. ------------------------------ From: jstro0@pop.uky.edu (Jim Strottmann) Subject: Re: close-grip bench presses (was something else) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:38:26 -0500 In article <01bc3230$851b2920$273444ce@Master>, "James Kubler" wrote: > Do close grip benches help more in making tricepts grow than wide grip? All the controversy about inner and outer, upper and lower pecs aside, this much is clear: close-grip bench is a great tricep exercise, while staying within the "big, compound" exercise category. Concentrate on keeping your elbows close to your sides to maintain the emphasis on the triceps. Many caution against using a grip width less than 14 inches or so between the thumbs, out of concern for the elbows and wrists. You can work up to really impressive weights with this exercise, very suitable for low-rep sets, and I find it gives a really deeply-worked feeling to my triceps. But don't forget, if you want to keep a simple, low-volume strategy, that if you work up to heavy weights on the bench and shoulder press, you _will_ have big triceps. They get trained very well by these moves, as well as by dips (another time-tested compund pressing-structures builder). > When using wide grip, does it in turn aide in more delt growth? Yup, but going quite wide may strain the shoulder. From: David Wilkey Subject: Re: arms like popeye Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:41:54 -0500 Dynamo wrote: > > Joseph Leopold D Mcginnis wrote: > > > > Can anyone suggest some good forearm exercises? I've never had to > > work them before but now they're starting to lag behind. Also, please > > describe how to do them because suggestions like 'just do a double-twist > > dorsal curl or a flap pull row push press' don't generally help. Any help > > would be greatly appreciated. > > > Here are some excersises for you to try... > > 1)Sit at the end of the bench, lay your forearms on your thighs, palms > up, with your wrists hanging over your knees. Hold a barbell in your > hands and let it roll down your fingers as low as you can without > dropping it, then curl it back up lifting your hands up until they're > about 90 degrees to your forearms. > 2)Get in the same position except with your palms down. Let your hands > drop down against your shins, then raise them parallel to the floor. > 3)Stand with your arms hanging down at your sides, holding the barbell > behind you. Roll the weight down your fingers as low as you can without > dropping it, then curl it back up trying to make your hands parallel to > the floor. > 4)Take a bar about 10". Connect the end of a rope(approx. 2') to the > center of it and plates to the other end. While grasping the bar with a > hand at each end, hold your arms out from your body and keep rolling the > bar with each hand so that the rope winds around the bar. Try it with > palms up and palms down. > > Hope that these help... > > Dynamo Deadlifts and stiff-leg deadlifts did more for my forearms than any of the isolation exercises, besides being just killer exercises overall. In fact, that's the main reason I kept doing them at first. Tried em, with an overhand grip, and my forearms had never been so damn pumped or sore... Matt Staples wrote: : I am having a hell of a time increasing my poundages on biceps. I : currently do four sets of standing barbell curls at the end of back day, : after I have already done heavy deads, seated cable rows, and lat : pulldowns. I take the last 2 sets to concentric and eccentric failure, : sometimes doing a drop set on the last set to make sure they are : fatigued completely. Try starting your workout with barbell curls or do them just after deads. Forget seated cable rows if you're doing deadlifts in the same day. Vary your pulldown grip. You can pump up your biceps doing chin-ups last. : How do some of you regulars train biceps? I only do one exercise for : them because I think I hit them pretty hard in some of my heavy back : exercises. Should I switch to doing them on my chest and triceps day, : when they wouldn't be pre-exhausted from the back exercises? I tried : doing incline curls for a few weeks, and I got really sore after working : them, but now I can't even do as many reps as I could with the same : weight on barbell curls before I did the inclines! And I have gained 4 : pounds during this period! Any ideas out there? If you start training biceps on your chest and triceps day, you'll probably overtrain them. If you want to try this however, your biceps workout should look something like this: 2-3 movements, 3 sets and 4-8 reps all in ten minutes. Incline curls are good if you are not into heavy weights. You might want to replace it with one-hand concentrated curl for example. -- Sami From: bjorn.moren@mailbox.swipnet.se (Björn Morén) Subject: Re: Biceps Training Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 19:33:49 GMT Matt Staples wrote: >I am having a hell of a time increasing my poundages on biceps. Most of the tips you've gotten are good, and I can add to that: Do your forearms get very pumped when you do biceps training? Some people tend to use forearms very much in biceps exercises. Try lighten the barbell grip a bit, and you will feel it is harder to curl, and how that affects the biceps more. Observe that this doesn't apply to everyone, and can be insignificant if your biceps routine doesn't work well to start with. /Björn Morén +---------------+----------------------------------------=====-----+ | Björn Morén, | bjorn.moren@mailbox.swipnet.se C o o D | -------------------------------- "Matt Staples" wrote: >Thanks, Bjorn, I am going to give this a try. My forearms _really_ get >pumped from my back workout and when I do curls. They are so pumped by the >time I get to doing curls, which I do last on back day, that I can barely >even move my wrists. Lat pulldowns really do this to me. >I'll give your advice a shot; thanks for posting it! Then you have the exact same problem as me. Hope my tip will work for you. :-) Here's some more: What some people notice is that their biceps doesn't start growing until they start doing heavy deadlifts. Another thing that works for some people is to not go heavy on curls, but instead do 15-20 reps each set. The percentage of slow twitch fibers seems very high in the biceps, at least for some people. Arnold Schwarzenegger, famous for very big biceps lists some common mistakes in his old book "Encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding": * Using the wrist in the beginning of the curl takes load off the biceps. * Neglecting to flex hard at the top where the weight is easy to curl. * Using shoulders and back too much, ie cheating all the time instead of in a controlled manner. Since biceps also rotates the wrist Arnold talks a lot about rotating the wrist when doing DB curls to get maximum contraction/strech. For all exercises, and biceps in particular, I think that it's important to concentrate on the target muscle. Focus on the muscle instead of focus on getting the weight up. Mentally be inside the muscle and torture it. Feel the pain in the muscle, instead of just concentrating on getting the weight up. This may sound too philosophical but: Where are you mentally when you lift? Are your conciousness outside your body, in your brain or in the muscle? * Outside your body: You are probably hesitating whether you can lift the weight. You'd rather go to the showers. A bad attitude that won't produce any muscles. * In your brain: You are dedicated and have guts and concentration. * Inside the muscle: It's very tough to be here, because it hurts real bad. You have ass kicking mental powers. Try to be here! Good luck! /Björn Morén From: Mike Miskulin Subject: Re: In need of a good biceps routine ... Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:46:40 -0400 (EDT) > > James wrote: > >> Could someone help me out and recommend a good bicep >> routine.I do three exercises for them when I work them (a total of fifteen >> sets)and work to failure.I do preacher curls(5-sets) alternating dumbell >> curls(5-sets) and standing straight bar curls(5-sets).I seem to get great > > > You are overtraining your biceps. Heaven forbid if you are doing this more > than once a week. Soreness is also not a necessary indicator for growth or > strength increase. Whoa there Wilbur! I hardly think you've been given enough facts to conclude that he is overtraining. Nor that he was doing it more than once a week. Perhaps James can fill us in on that one. James, what else do you do, and when do you do it? Are you doing a lot of lat work too? And if so, are you allowing time to recover before doing bi's? Dont forget that most back work involves the biceps quite a bit, especially if you are using heavy weights and perhaps not 100% correct form. You might want to drop to 3 sets each exercise and try to up the weight - you don't tell us how many reps you do so I'm guessing its 8ish? Try cutting back to 6 reps with say 10% more weight. I would also keep the preacher curls but rotate the alt. dumbell curls and st8t barbell curls and add a rotation of reverse barbell curls and hammer curls. So keep with 3 exercises but choose from a larger set. The hammer/ reverse curls will help the brachilis and give you some added thickness (I am *sure* I've hacked the spelling please forgive me). > Do 2-3 sets for biceps HARD once a week. Use the time you save on Squats > and Deadlifts. If you are to increase arm size significantly you must gain > overall body mass -- period. I have no problem with the last statement, but I do the first part. 2-3 sets of biceps is not much work at all. And what is hard? 20 reps? 5 reps with a lot of weight? Is one of those sets a warm up? If he had said he was doing this 3 times a week I could see overtraining but once a week aint that much. You have every right to disagree with me, but I for one am so tired of the "hard gainer" "overtrained" "oh my god you do more than 1 set!?!" school of thought (preachers?). Its equally extreme as those who say do a zillion sets 6 days a week. People, use some *common sense*. Some will recover sooner. Some will do better with heavy weights/low reps, others lighter/more reps. Its *your* body. If you are doing a ton of sets you'll know fairly quickly if its destroying your body or limiting your progress. I think most people limit their progress not from lifting too much but from too little variety/change in their programs. Bench, squat, deadlifts, curls. ZZZzzz. Same order. Same parts worked together every time. Lots of guys on this list are big on squats But there are lots of different ways to do squats! Every little change in angle of attack, or balance of muscles involved helps keep your body from adapting to the load you are putting on it. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program.... Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill & Kim" Subject: Re: In need of a good bicep routine..... Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 07:26:39 -0500 Whoa there Wilbur! I hardly think you've been given enough facts to conclude that he is overtraining. Nor that he was doing it more than once a week. Perhaps James can fill us in on that one. 15 sets for biceps...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out he is overtraining! > I have no problem with the last statement, but I do the first part. > 2-3 sets of biceps is not much work at all. And what is hard? 20 reps? > 5 reps with a lot of weight? Hard is not defined by percentage of weight nor a certain rep scheme. >You have every right to disagree with me, > but I for one am so tired of the "hard gainer" "overtrained" "oh my > god you do more than 1 set!?!" So I said "overtrained". It is a fact about a LOT of people overtrain! I do two sets for biceps and have since I can remember. About 18 or so years. Do I do heavy back work? Yes, but only a few sets. Did this limit my arm size. No. Am I so much different then anyone else? Last time I looked int he mirror I was a human. HAH! You don't need much direct arm work...period. Bill Piche Cyberpump! http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/4000/ From: ROBO (ROBO) Subject: Re: Bicep Question? Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:49:27 GMT After sucking down a flaxseed-contaminated Designer Protein Jason Schneider spewed the following multicolored chunks: >ROBO wrote: >> >> After sucking down a flaxseed-contaminated Designer Protein >> clayton71@aol.com (Clayton71) spewed the following multicolored >> chunks: >> >> > Could someone tell me what the absolute best exercise is for >> >building the most mass on the biceps.I have been told that it is barbell >> >curls but do not know if that is right. > >> Weighted chinups > >Hi Robo, > >Why is it you say that? I agree the biceps are certainly involved but I >would have thought something that isolated them a little better would be >more appropriate? I have my own personal ideas about "isolation" exercises. When a newbie asks a question about exercises, I almost always tend to steer them inthe direction of compound exercises. I would probably say that incline curls or standing db curls are probably the best isolation exercises, but doing weighted chins for awhile will lay a very strong foundation of strength that one can later build upon, plus you get that added benefit of a set of wings. :) . If you've ever seen a beginner lift, they ALWAYS use too much weight on curls. It's usually an ego thing. Doing the chinups now will make him much stronger so that later he will be able to do more weight for his curls. 3 months later, if he listened, he'd have arms that are strong as hell. He'd post a question to the effects of "have strong arms, want to develop biceps for size now", and then I'd steer him toward a curl exercise or two, and now he'll be able to use a weight that will satiate the ego, plus build the bi's. I don't think about just now or next workout, I think about 3 or 4 months down the line, as well. Just my style. Ahhh sweet agony - the lure of heavy IRON. Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we go to SQUAT!!!!! grow or die ROBO email to beare@mindspring.com, if you wish. For replies via email, just check the address and adjust accordingly. From: kerr@marlin.nosc.mil (Bill Kerr) Subject: Triceps and Incline Bench Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:51:38 -0800 Jennifer asks about triceps. Good question! I know a fair number of movements for triceps, but only two of them "feel good" or give me a good pump. The ones I like are: Lieing Triceps Extension: you tell fibs about how strong your triceps are. OK, I don't know the "proper" name for these things, I call 'em skull crushers. You lay on your back, hold the bar over your head and sort of behind you and press it up. Hold your upper arms at an angle so that you don't get to relax at the top of the movement. Triceps cable extension: USE A ROPE. I don't like the v-bars or straight bars for this -- they let you use your shoulders and pecs to squeeze the bar down. If you use a rope you isolate the tris better and you can do bar down. If you use a rope you isolate the tris better and you can do that little flare of the wrists at the bottom of the move and that *really* hurts. Ones I have done but didn't like: Kickbacks, "French" press (barbell or dumbbell), close-grip bench press, Nautilus triceps press, cable extensions (weird machine I saw once that you sit at a preacher curl station, the cable comes over your shoulder and you "anti-curl" your arm down and up against the weight stacked behind you). I dislike all of these enough that I actually bought a rope attachment since the gym I go to doesn't have their own. Chester asks about the angle of an incline bench. The one in the gym I go to is fixed at about 45 degrees. Seems to me it depends on what you want to work. Higher angle equals more shoulder involvement. Lower angle equals more pecs. Bill Kerr kerr@marlin.nosc.mil Joint METOC, C4I and FMS Subject: Re: Tell me about triceps. Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:43:19 -0400 > From: jennifer l wilson > Subject: Tell me about triceps. > My triceps workouts are getting, well, stale. :) Just wanted to see if > anyone would be willing to share/trade tactics. I've noticed that most people fail to move through the full range of motion for triceps exercises. Consequently it's not too surprising when people say that they just can't get them sore. I've found that moving to the extreme elbow flexion in movements such as cable french presses and triceps pressdowns do help strengthwise. I've noticed an improvement in the lower portion of my bench press where the elbow is at a similarly flexed angle. Pausing at this point (where your forearms are touching your biceps) gets a nice stretch and can help get you that much sought after DOMS...I like to play w/ repetition tempos as well, sometimes cutting back on the weight and increasing the seconds per rep to 6-7 seconds, or sometimes moving faster w/ heavier weights (total of 4 seconds per rep). Different rep tempos provide different results, and are easy to vary on a week to week basis. Also, I like to focus on the long head of the triceps, which constitutes most of the muscle, and when developed adds significant thickness to the arm. Most hand positions and exercises work the outer heads of the triceps more. For the long head to be worked, the humerous has to be typically put in an overhead position. Sandeep De The Power Factory - http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/4039/ From: CBROWN01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Subject: Re: Tell me about triceps Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:24:05 -0700 Two words: Dirty Thirties! These are a great triceps routine to throw in, guaranteed to give you a burn. They are "dirty" because when you use a challenging weight, you will be crying and cursing to finish the 30th dirty #$*&! rep. I love 'em. :) Lay on your back on a flat bench, have a partner hand you a loaded curl bar and do 10 reps each without a break (3 movements X 10 reps = 1 set of 30): * Skull crushers (described by Bill Kerr yesterday). * Narrow-grip arc from chest, grazing up and over nose, down behind and below head. * Narrow grip chest press (from mid-chest straight up--keep elbows in!). Use a narrow grip to isolate your tris, keep your elbows in, and be careful not to strain your elbow joints. If you want, you can do two or three sets of thirty, but listen to your body and don't overdo it. One solid set can be a great end to a triceps workout. I switch around with other triceps movements every few weeks to keep my arms guessing. Good luck, and remember: if you aren't crying by the end of the set, add more weight! :) Cliff Cliff Brown Menlo Park, CA ------------------------------ From: "Pat Newell SRA" Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 18:53:50 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: (Weights-2) Re: biceps I'm reluctant to admit it, but I think benching/pushups can cause a beginner's biceps to grow. First I agree that the biceps are not involved in these excercises, and certainly a PT who recommended training biceps to improve one's bench should be --- well benched. 26 years ago I was 14 and started a crazy program. I did pushups every day, trying to do one more each day than the previous day. Eventually I built up to over 120 pushups at a time. This is the only exercise I did, and obviously I didn't know what I was doing. However some hypertrophy occurred. Other kids began asking how I got my chest and "guns". In fact there were several comments on my biceps (obviously I did not really get very big by this approach). As far as a theory goes, I have to do something else I'm reluctant to admit to, which is refer to Ellington Darden. Most of what he advocates seems flat wrong to me, including the idea of full body workouts. However Darden claims that working a muscle is like throwing a stone in a pond -- there is a ripple effect. The bigger the muscle is, the bigger the effect, the closer the muscles are, the bigger the effect. Under this theory, working the triceps could have some ripple growth effect on the nearby biceps. I believe one reason the "hardgainer" crowd likes squats so much is a belief in something like the ripple effect, namely that one tends to become more muscular as a whole, rather than piecemeal. Let me end by repeating that I completely agree with Tom that training the biceps is not a sensible way to try to improve the bench (and for a non- beginner, don't expect benching to help your biceps). Pat Newell ------------------------------ From: Jamie Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Subject: (Weights-2) Biceps enigma **NBAF WEIGHTS-2** The biceps tendon is connected to the shoulder. Perhaps when doing bench, he held the weight, or had the weight slightly off center so his front delts were doing all the work (the weights were above his head, not his chest). This might be enough to stimulate the biceps, which are attached in that general area. Jamie Taweel jtaweel@sun.science.wayne.edu http://www.science.wayne.edu/~jtaweel ------------------------------ From: Bob Mann Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:06:05 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: (Weights-2) Re: biceps At 10:49 30/07/97 -0600, TMccull230@aol.com wrote: > >The biceps is this movement (bench press) would be considered the antagonist. > They have the opposite action of the agonist (triceps) by relaxing and >allowing the opposite motion of the triceps (agonists). > >So anyone else have any ideas why Eric's biceps would have grow when he did >only the bench press? > >Tom McCullough MEd., MSS All I can think of is that the antagonistic muscles will grow to a certain extent in response to an increase in strength of the agonist muscle. I can't remember where I heard or read this. (Probably in one of the muscle rags) I think the only way the biceps would be used is to help prevent hyperextension of the elbow. Bob Mann ------------------------------ From: Clayton71@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: (Weights-2) biceps In a message dated 97-07-31 11:18:38 EDT, you write: << Subj: (Weights-2) biceps what are the best exercises?, how many sets should i do? how often can i train per week? I would have to say for me anyway the best biceps exercises are preacher curls,incline dumbell curls,and standing barbell curls.I think that all three are great and produce good mass.As far as how much to do a week depends on your recovery time.Me I do a total of 13 sets a week.5 sets of preachers,5 sets of incline dumbell and 3 sets of barbell curls as a triset superset I geuss you would call it,it really gives me that extra pump .But again this is just what I do,you have to experiment to see what works best for you.There was a good article in Ironman magazine where they tested which was the best out of several exercises and preachers and incline were supposed to be the best.They tested with an emg reading or something like that.Hope this helps a little. James GO HEAVY OR GO HOME!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: FOURGZINVA@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:13:51 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: (Weights-2) biceps If you want to see some good growth, I would suggest that you try compound sets. For example, do a set of E-Z Bar curls, then do a set of standing dumbbell curls. By the time I get done doing biceps, by bi feels like it's about to rip out of my arm. Experiment with how often to do biceps (or any body part). But don't overdue it. You don't want big arms and a flat chest, or fat abs, or skinny little legs. ------------------------------ From: FOURGZINVA@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 08:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: (Weights-2) biceps...Clayton71 I have to agree when Clayton says to experiment. Not everybody feels right or gets the best pump doing the exercises that are best for everybody. But don't forget to change up every 4 weeks or so. Do the same exercises, but change your rep count or the amount of sets you're doing, or maybe go heavier. Don't stagnate. ------------------------------ From: "Dr M. C. Siff" Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 07:22:30 -0600 (MDT) Subject: (Weights-2) BENCH AND BICEPS Recently there were some queries concerning the apparent paradox that the biceps of some avid bench pressers sometimes tend to develop noticeably, even without accompanying biceps exercises. This and many other apparent paradoxes in the training world can be resolved if one initially postpones asking the question: "Which muscles does this exercise involve?" and begins by asking the simpler, more fundamental question: "Which joints does this exercise involve?". Next one asks: "Which types of movement are involved (i.e. flexion, extension, adduction, internal rotation...)? And: "Which joints are being stabilised?" So, if we examine the bench press, we conclude that the main joints involved in movement are the shoulder and the elbow. The elbow is involved in active extension (largely via the triceps and anconeus) and passive flexion caused by gravity tending to pull the weight down. This results in eccentric action of the triceps etc, but does not actively involve the biceps except for phases of stabilisation. We ask the same questions about adduction (and passive abduction) about the shoulder and readily deduce that the anterior deltoids and pectoralis major are seriously involved. This rapid deduction tends to make one forget that the accompanying extension of the shoulder involves loading of the one head of the biceps, so that part of the biceps becomes strongly activated by stretch and by stabilisation processes. This tends to happen under isometric or quasi-isometric conditions, which with heavy loading can contribute to muscle hypertrophy. This highlights something which many bodybuilders are not aware of or tend to forget, namely that powerful loaded stretching or concentration-type prestretching (which I might call 'concentration prestretch') can increase hypertrophy of muscle and connective tissue (for those who want to know more, Dr Verkhoshansky and I discuss this in our book: 'Supertraining' - enquiries from dusty@lightstream.net). You should then pay a bit more attention to intensely loaded or strongly concentrated phases of full-range movement and stretches if you wish to assist your bulking program out of a possible sticking point. For some guidance, watch carefully how a competitive powerlifter actively prestretches his entire body into a strongly bowed 'spring' waiting to fire the bar upwards with this accumulated prestretch. Interesting to see where these unusual observations from the experiences of some curious athletes lead, isn't it? Who would ever have thought that one might derive great benefits for one part of the body by using an exercise which seems to be remotely connnected or totally disconnected. If we start appreciating that an overemphasis on trying to isolate muscles can often hinder progress and realising that overflow and multiple joint action can often offer even better results, then we are well on your way to being a better balanced athletes or fitness fanatics. Dr Mel C Siff School of Mechanical Engineering University of the Witwatersrand WITS 2050 South Africa msiff@hertz.mech.wits.ac.za From: ROBO and Sonia (ROBO and Sonia ) Subject: Re: Biceps Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:09:28 GMT petri@dish.net (Z-Man!) said: >On 10 Aug 1997 03:41:29 GMT, billbiceps@aol.com (BillBiceps) wrote: > >>>> I'm looking for a good lift to isolate biceps. I need to add a lift to >>>my >>>> routine! >> >>Try doing incline dumdell curls with the bench at about a 45 degree angle. >>This excersize is a good one that Arnold used as an extra mass buliderwhen >>not doing barbell curls. > >I tell ya, one of the best bicep-isolating exercises has got to be the >reverse-grip pullup on a chin bar. > hmmm, finally found someone that agrees with me (kinda). I won't say that the reverse grip pullup does much for isolating the biceps, as I seem to notice a _bit_ of lat involvement ;->, but it strengthens the elbow flexors so much that when the typical trainee moves to curls after about 4-6 weeks worth of heavy chins, they are able to handle ungodly amounts of weight, and their biceps recovery is far better. cogito ergo SQUAT! Rob and Sonia "It's a great day for hockey" - the late Badger Bob In article , SpamSucks@Home.com (Dave) wrote: >I have a problem with my biceps...it's all peak. It's a pretty damn good >peak but I need more work on the long head of the bicep. I believe that I >read recently that hammer curls stress this area the best. I would like >some input. I typically do two exercises for biceps...barbell curls >followed by alternating dumbell curls. Should I stop doing the barbell >curls and go with hammer curls, or does anyone have a better solution to my >problem? What you need to develop is the brachialis, the muscle beneath the bicep head. Hammer curls work and preacher curls work too. It is easy to overtrain the bicep, so I say get rid of barbell curls and dumbell curls and train exclusively with the hammer curl and preacher curl for a few weeks and see what happens. Robert and Stefanie Duncan wrote: > > Robert and Sonia Beare wrote: > > > > > >Whoever said "Size doesn't matter" must not have had enough size to matter! > > > > > > > incline hammer curls SS with undergrip chins > > > > cogito ergo SQUAT! > > > > Rob and Sonia > > > > "It's a great day for hockey" > > - the late Badger Bob > > Best bi advbice around. Does the trick for me. > > Rob Good advice , wrong answer. The shape of your muscle is determined by genetics and you can do hammer curls until your arms fall off and you'll still have a nice peak without much lower bicep. Hammer curls do however put a little more stress on the brachialis which when developed will give the bicep a wider appearance, but do little to change the length appearnace. Remember, long connective tissue = peak, short connective tissue = long full bicep. Nothing you can do to change that. Big Mac -- Serious Lifter, Ex-Gym owner, Guru of nothing Glendale, Az Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:39:23 -0600 From: Keith Hobman Subject: Re: Forearm and Wrist Strength Rod Snow wrote, >Hey guys and gals, > I'm very new to this sport, and i was wondering if anybody could >give me some tips for working my forearms. They've always been a sore >point for me, as i've always felt they're far undersized. Any help would >be much appreciated. Hi Rod - you picked a great sport (whichever strength sport you are getting into!) to get involved in. Good luck. What works for me. First, never use straps on anything - deadlifts, shrugs, chins etc. are all done using grip strength. If you're gym doesn't supply chalk - get some. If the owners/managers complain about the chalk - tell them to get a life, this is how it should be done. Second - conventional exercises which work best for me are hammer curls for my forearms and wrist curls for - well, the wrist! I use db's for the hammer curls, lie on a incline bench and curl with the fist and the shaft of the db pointed up - like lifting a hammer to strike. The wrist curls I do standing with the barbell behind my back (actually just below my butt). I lower the bar to the end of my fingers and then curl it up the fingers and lift my hands up and away from my back. I also do chins on the power cage using only my fingertips to grip. Third - 'un'conventional exercises. Rope climbing - works great if you can find a place to do it. Climb a thick soft rope using only your hands - don't wrap the rope through your legs. Did this in the fire dept. Also wall climbing works very well, but more on hand strength. Another exercise I have done is a sledge hammer lift. From a seated position grip the handle of the sledge (it is about 45 degrees off the floor) and lift the head as high as you can. I haven't been powerlifting long, but 20 years ago without touching a bar or db I had very good hand, wrist and forearm strength because of the rope climbing. I would also 'pinch-grip' two 24 bottle cases of coke while loading pallets of an assemble line all day, which didn't hurt. Another thing I did was put on a pair of gloves and go up power or telephone post guy wires hand over hand. When I was tested for our local fire dept I set a new standard for 'grip' strength, probably because of my assembly line job and these exercises. Keith Hobman Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:51:26 -0400 From: Oscar Gerardo Celis Carvajal Subject: Re: forearm and wrist ex.10 Sep 1997 ------------------------------------------- Here's my routine: Try to make deadlifts without chalk, being carefull when the weight is going out of your hands. Practice reverse grip curls, great for the supinators Practice free climbing (no kidding!!). With ten minutes you'll experience that Popeye feeling, by the way, you don't need an Everest to develop that feeling, just a 7 ft. tall stone wall with plenty of edges will do. If all the exercises described above didn't work, here's a good one: place a hard rubber band (the red one, special for sling shots!!) in the back of your hand, strapped around your first and fifth finger, then try to remove it with the same hand. . . VARIATIONS 1.- put another rubber band (2x hard) 2.- put another rubber band in your OTHER hand 3.- roll once the rubber band 4.- reduce in half the length of the band 5.- tie your shoes and try to take the band off Oscar Celis Venezuelan Powerlifter Biceps are biceps. You cannot selectively work or develop the medial head. IMO the best for pure building of the biceps is the old , reliable standing barbell curl WITH HEAVY WEIGHTS Also do hammers to develop the neglected brachialis muscles. Much of the bulk of the "biceps" actually comes from the brachialis muscle DEEP to the biceps. Rob Alex Haynes wrote in message ... >Ok muscle dudes, > >Excluding bench press... what's the best exercises to give you big bi's >and tri's and could anyone please tell me which bicep exercises do the >inner bicep (facing your chest) more... > >Cheers. > > >-- >Al > > Alex Haynes wrote: > Excluding bench press... what's the best exercises to give you big bi's > and tri's and could anyone please tell me which bicep exercises do the > inner bicep (facing your chest) more... The biceps muscle has two heads. The "long" head is responsible for bending the elbow and raising the arm forward at the shoulder. The "short" head supinates the hand (this is "excerpted" from "Secrets Of Advanced Bodybuilders" by Health For Life, BTW). At the shoulder, the short head is "inside" the long head. As you go down the arm, the short head crosses over the top of the long head, and ends at the elbow on the "outside" of the long head. My favorite exercise is preacher curl. "Secrets" claims that this is better than a Standing Barbell Curl for 2 reasons. It places less strain on the back, and it isolates the biceps better. According to "Secrets" you also need to perform an exercise that requires supination of the hand, and it recommends what it calls "Standing Supinated Dumbbell Curls", which is what I believe others have mentioned in their responses to your message. When performing this exercise, keep your elbows in close to your side, and slightly in front of you. Permitting your elbows to slide behind you takes the strain off the biceps, defeating the purpose of the exercise. It is also recommended to keep your wrists "back" rather than straight. This helps keep tension on the biceps. I've read that performing reverse-grip preacher curls also work the short head. I've been doing these for a while, and I'm not so sure that they're doing anything with the short head of the biceps. But they sure do fry my brachioradialis (forearm)! Later, Michael