From: holtcscs@pe.win.net (Stephen Holt, CSCS) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 05:16:03 GMT Subject: Re: EZ-Curl Bar, pinkies up? In article <4cs24v$2rm@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, Joe Daniel (joedanie@ix.netcom.com) writes: >I know that when you use an EZ-Curl bar, a few people I've seen have >said to use it with your pinkies up to work the biceps better and also >force the elbows in (Larry Scott is one that I remember saying it). >But, it isn't all that clear to me and a friend. We had a little >argument about whether the pinkies are up at the top of the curl, or >when you pick up the bar. With the hands facing away from your body, >when you reach down to pick up the bar, should the pinky finger be >above or below everything else? I feel straight bar curls much better, >but they hurt my wrists to much. Thanks for any help! > One of the functions of the biceps is supination. If your pinkies are up, you are fully supinated and can contract the biceps fully. Your goal should be to keep tension in the muscle throughout the set, so there is no need to leave the supinated position. You can start with the wrists neutral and supinate at the top then advance to staying supinated throughtout the set. Using dumbbells is preferable Supination with an EZ Curl Bar is a little drastic for my taste, but it's not a horrible technique either. ===================================================================== Stephen Holt, CSCS From: cmclarz1@homer.louisville.edu (Chuck Clark) Subject: Re: bigger forearms? Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 02:02:01 GMT mabehr@mit.edu (Michael Behr) wrote: >what exercises can be done to increase the size of your forearms? >wrist curls? broom twists, and other wrist exercises? >(I don't know what muscles are on the forearm. The tricep is down there >somewhere, right?) The triceps run from the shoulder to the elbow (scapula, humerus---->ulna). The muscles of the forearm can be divided up into 3 categories (it's a lot more complicated than that, but bare with me) : wrist flexors, wrist extensors, and "grip" muscles. The grip muscles (name self-explanatory) also flex the wrist (pull the palm of the hand toward the forearm) along with the wrist flexors. The wrist extensors pull the back of the hand towards the forearm. Usually, if one is early in training, merely training without straps or other assistive devices will suffice in building the forearm. However, if one wanted to build the forearm, he/she should find an exercise that mimics these motions. Usually, the "grip" muscles are in need of the most work if no deadlifts or heavy rows have been performed. Doing rows and/or deadlifts may be the best solution to this problem. One thing I like to do is to take my deadlift weight (after deadlifts) and hold it in the lockout position with an overhand grip for as long as possible. (Try it, you're traps will [hate] thank you ;^) As to reverse curls, they place the biceps in a poor pulling position and the brachialis (an upper arm muscle from humerus---->ulna, under the biceps) in a position where it's actually can pull more than the biceps. However, you might develop a good case of tendonitis with long-term use. They are NOT effective at building the forearm musculature. The hammer curl is reported to work the brachioradialis (an elbow flexor that runs from humerus to lower part of radius). Increasing it's size will contribute to forearm girth. Again be careful with weight progression. As to wrist extension/flexion, if you choose to work this motion, pick an exercise that does it safely. I saw a cable machine that resembled a preacher bench except the bench was flat on top. A free weight alternative is to raise a (flat-top) hyperextension bench up or kneel in front of it. This will only work if your forearms are fully supported. You could also do these across your lap. Let me reiterate: for most people (especially skinny beginners), the best way to build forearm mass is to put on muscular bodyweight. The best way to build muscular bodyweight is to stick to the basics. Also, the very act of doing some of these exercises will contribute more to forearm growth than a gazillion sets of wrist curls. Hope this helps clear up some confusion. -- Chuck Clark SPT cmclarz1@homer.louisville.edu University of Louisville, KY From: vampyre@anet-dfw.com (Mr Duplicity) Subject: Re: Curling Question Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 04:07:38 GMT dabomb wrote: >Jake W. wrote: >> >> On the E-Z curl bar which is better, the inner grip or >> the outer grip?? Or does it really matter?? >> Jake >I always used an inner grip on the preacher, but since I got stronger and > have moved up to 115lbs it really hurts my forearms and wrists. I tried >******(stuff clipped out)********* >Has anyone else had problems with wrist pain with the EZ curl bar? I was >under the impression that the whole purpose of the thing was to >elimninate that. I noticed the same problems when got up to using 115lbs as well. I was using a preacher curl bench and alternated grips between wide and narrow on the Z-bar and had alot of pain in my forearms. This pain could best be described as feeling EXACTLY like shin splints except in your forearms. I experimented with several variations but the key seems to be eliminating the preacher bench. Since it limits movement, it forces you to have good form but at higher weights this causes a problem because it is placing undue stress on the connective tissue in the forearm and especially the elbow. The best suggestion I have for heavy bicep work, once you've reached the point your at, is to lose the preacher bench and concentrate on strict form. It really can shock your muscles into new development if youve not done it much in a while. I've stopped using the Z-bar at all now and do standing curls with an olympic bar instead. Also dont forget the benefits of heavy compound movements like T-bar pull and bent rows. -Brad Smith From: caj@tower.stc.housing.washington.edu (Craig Johnston) Subject: Re: Subborn Biceps Date: 9 Apr 1996 20:12:16 GMT In article <4ke1qs$11t@vtc.tacom.army.mil>, Jow Lae wrote: > >The information on this newsgroup has been great. I wonder if anyone can >help me on this bicep question. > >I'm normally sore for several days after working the back, legs, triceps >and chest, but never, ever sore after working the biceps. I have small >biceps, 17.25 inches, and am having a lot of trouble getting them to >respond. I can get a pump, no problem, but I can't seem to recruit the >biceps the same way as I do the other muscle groups. If I left heavy, my >delts get sore: if I go lighter with higher reps, all I get is a >premature pump. > >I do EZ bar curls; dumbbell curls, incline dumbbell curls; preacher curls >with cables; one arm preacher curls with dumbbells and curls with the >olympic bar (not all in one workout, of course). I usually select three >exercises, for three sets, always starting with the EZ bar curl with max >poundage. My reps are usually in the 6-8 range until the preacher curls, >where I go for higher reps. > >Any suggestions? > Soreness or no, sounds like you're overtraining your biceps to me, assuming you don't use 'roids and you work with any intensity. You're doing three sets _each_ of three exercises, right? Just for kicks, try 2 sets each of heavy straight bar curls and incline dumbell hammer curls, and be sure to make em hurt. _Strict_ form, slow negatives, and even when sure you are out of gas strain against the weight anyway for a few secs. One thing missing in your bi routine is much work on the brachialis, the muscle underlying the bis (although the ez curls will hit it some) and the hammer curls furnish this. I feel like 7-8 reps is optimal for me on bis. If you try this for a couple weeks, tell me how it worked -- I have excellent success with just these two exercises. Oh, a couple other things to fool around with -- try doing your barbell curls with your back to a wall, and for another variation, try drag curls -- drag the bar up your body, always right next to it. Just some thoughts. -- Craig Johnston -- caj@tower.stc.housing.washington.edu Indicate your interest in receiving a free 5 megabyte one time pad by sending unsolicited commercial email to this address. From: lylemcd@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald) Subject: Re: What are hammer curls ? Date: 15 Nov 1996 14:09:32 GMT In article <328C2616.C91@tarik.demon.co.uk>, larry@tarik.demon.co.uk wrote: > Well, as the subject says, what are hammer curls (for biceps) ? Using dumbbells, rotate your palms so that they face your body throughout the entire movement. It's the same grip you'd use to hold a hammer. Hence the name. Increases involvements of the brachialis muscle. Lyle McDonald, CSCS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 From: kerr@marlin.nosc.mil (Bill Kerr) Subject: Re: Anatomical questions The brachialis lies underneath the biceps. Many pros advocate training for the brachialis (arm curl movements done with the grip reversed (palm down)) because growth of the brachialis does push the biceps peak higher. And yes, the triceps muscle group usually has more overall mass than the biceps. But the biceps muscle is bigger than the brachialis and the size and shape of the biceps is what determines most of the way the front of the upper arm looks. And the genetics that lead to the high "peak" shape of the biceps are critical to successful bodybuilding. Big biceps are such a critical element in the "strong person" look that it seems like no matter what the rest of you looks like, if you don't have 'big guns,' don't bother. ------------------------------ From: Pekka Sahlsten Date: 26 Nov 96 Subject: Re: Big Biceps Big Bulging Biceps... what better bodybuilding topic... > From: "Nettles, Olin" > Your biceps > get a lot of work in other exercises, so it's almost imposssible to do > too little direct biceps work. Mine grew like weeds when I cut back to > just 4 sets every 10 days or so. Yes, that's ALL. Four sets or so, if > done right, should be plenty to blast the heck out of them, say after > your back workout. I know some guys who are switching to working biceps > directly only every other workout cycle, e.g., after every other back > workout. "These are individual results, and as individuals wary, so will results..." I'd say that ypur arms can very well be undertrained! I don't know what you cut back form, but maybe you would grow even better with something inbetween. My personal arm training is based on the variable split philosophy advocated by Shawn Phillips (see Muscle Media 2000, sept. 1995 pg. 138, maybe also on http://www.mm2k.com/ ? - their site doesn't answer me for 2 days...). This basically relies on the fact that since arms are a small bodypart, its muscles recuperate faster than, say, the back. I've been training my arms _every_training_session_ (3 times a week) for the last 3 mths and have gained 2/5" (or 1 cm). This does not sound like much, I know, but for me it is a lot after training 12+ yrs and not being able to put on any size on my arms in the last couple of years. And the're still growing! An additional benefit is that your arms feel "pumped" all the time, it's great! > From: martinsp > The triceps > increases the size of the upper arm to a greater proportion than the > biceps, so it is important to focus on the two together. You can say that again, only my tri's grow a lot better.... > From: jaguiar@acad.aic.edu > Although I train at least 4 days of intense training my biceps have seemed to > stop growing. Right now there at 15inches. > ... > I'm also interested on other exercises that cause growth for the biceps. How long have you trained? Adding general bodyweight does indeed give you arm size as well. 4 days a week of HIT for arms is definitely overtraining, anyway. I train 3 times a week, and the variable split routine I mentioned consists of three different arm sessions to make sure you don't overtrain on this protocol, which you most certainly will if you "blast the heck out of them" every session. My routine: day 1 (relatively light weight) 3 supersets (60s rest in between supersets, moderate weight): triceps pushdowns 10-12 reps standing dumbell curls 10-12 reps day2 (moderate weight) 3 straight sets of (90s rest between sets, concentrate on form): lying french press 8-10 reps incline dumbell curls 8-10 reps day 3 (heavy) 2 straight sets of (120s rest between sets, go heavy!): narrow bench 6 to failure barbell curls 6 to failure It seems that, again, very different approaches can work. None of the other arm training methods, however, worked this well for me so far (believe me, I've tried many). -- Pekka ------------------------------ From: PackFan01@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 Subject: Re: Big Biceps I might be restating another person's reply, but I have always believed that two opinions are greater than one. Whenever you perform a back exersize (except hyperextensions), you are working your biceps. If you do 15 sets for your back and then go on to perform 12 sets for your biceps, you are really working your biceps for 27 sets. Do you really think that the little (in comparison to other muscles) biceps muscles need 27 sets to grow. No, they don't. What I would reccomend is doing 2 sets of 3 exersizes for your biceps once every 7 days. Here's what I do: 2x10 Incline Dumbell Curls 2x10 Straight-bar curls 2x10 Concentration curls With those three exersizes (done intensely) you are exhausting all of the fibers in the biceps. That is all you need. In fact, when I concentrate on pullups and chinups for my back, I don't even work biceps. And they grow more when I just do pullups. If you have any questions on this- my address is at the bottom of my message. "Never hold anything back" Eric Lancaster packfan01@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 From: "Peden, Glenn" Subject: Re: Big Biceps I'll have to second what Bill Kerr said in the last issue....the brachialis and triceps are what give the appearance of width and fullness to the upper arm. But it seems to take the whole package (i.e., biceps size/peak along with the other) to get the "big guns." For instance, my upper arms are a pretty decent size at 17+". But it's all triceps (so to speak). If I had decent biceps (much of which is genetically determined) I would have BIG arms. My upper arms are "wide," but not "tall." (I'm not sure how else to describe that.) By the way, the best exercise for brachialis as far as I'm concerned is seated, incline hammer curls. If I do reverse grip curls it seems to work my forearms much more than my upper arms, and since I have a tendency to quickly develop "Popeye" forearms, I don't do reverse grip curls too often. I find the genetic determination of muscle size and growth tendencies to be very interesting. My deltoids, triceps, forearms and calves get large with very little work. Actually, my calves are LARGE and stay large just by walking around and jumping rope occasionally. The rest of the body, though, requires a lot of work! Glenn ------------------------------